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Before Islam: When Saudi Arabia Was a Jewish Kingdom

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Tadhg Gaelach, Sep 22, 2017.

  1. Tadhg Gaelach

    Tadhg Gaelach Legend Political Irish Donator

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    [​IMG]


    An interesting article here. It seems the first text written in the same Arabic script as the Koran was actually Christian, and Arabia was dominated by the Jews. This can hardly be a surprise - the Koran admits as much and Islam is basically a version of Judaism, which incorporates most of the texts of the Torah in one form or another.

    I suppose our Zionists here will demand that Saudi Arabia also be handed over to the Jews. After all, the Jewish claim to Saudi Arabia is just as strong as their claim to Palestine. And no doubt the Jews lived in North Africa long before they migrated to the Middle East.

    Before Islam: When Saudi Arabia was a Jewish kingdom
     
  2. Dublin 4

    Dublin 4 Legend Political Irish Donator

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    The House of Saud are Jewish
     
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  3. Generation Snowflake

    Generation Snowflake Member Political Irish

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    "The Himyarite rulers may have seen in Judaism a potential unifying force for their new, culturally diverse empire, and an identity to rally resistance against creeping encroachment by the Byzantine and Ethiopian Christians, as well as the Zoroastrian empire of Persia."

    Makes sense.

    "In a last bid for independence, in 522, a Jewish Himyarite leader, Yusuf As'ar Yath'ar, rebelled against the puppet ruler enthroned by the negus and put the Aksumite garrison to the sword. He then besieged Najran, which had refused to provide him with troops, and massacred part of its Christian population – a martyrdom that sparked outrage amongst Yusuf’s enemies and hastened retribution from Ethiopia."

    This also makes sense. Didn't seem to end very well for them, lots of rebellions that get put down seems to be a frequent theme.

    "For the next century, Himyar was a Christian kingdom that continued to dominate Arabia. In the middle of the sixth century,
    read more:"

    Then of course the question in the article

    "Were they ‘real’ Jews?"



    Either way, sounds like a prop piece for why israel and saudia may start looking more and more hand in pocket in public. Or for the inevitable take over if they ever get their greater Israel going.
     
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  4. Generation Snowflake

    Generation Snowflake Member Political Irish

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    Regarding the religious aspect, reasons religions spawn or are taken up by certain groups differ.

    The torrah/old testament was ment to scare people into submisison, a vengeful god coming to get you for your sins.
    Reason the vikings/normans initially liked christianity, wasnt as much the new testament as it was the stuff in the old. This vengeful god appealed to them as a decent replacement for odin, and all those people sacrifices.
    A lot of the koran was written to stop the pagan arabs doing crazy shit, like burying baby girls alive because they wanted a boy, and they were giving her back as a sacrifice.

    I think this, "all western religions spawn from the jews" is a dodgy theme.
     
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  5. OP
    Tadhg Gaelach

    Tadhg Gaelach Legend Political Irish Donator

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    I agree that Christianity is tempered by the philosophy of the Greeks and by the ancient customs and religions of Western Europe, including our own Celtic Druidism. But, we must admit that the core of Christianity is still Jewish.
     
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  6. SwordOfStCatherine

    SwordOfStCatherine Legend Political Irish

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    I used to believe that Islam came from the Ebionites who were the descendents of St Paul's opponents in the Letter to Galatians who insisted that in order to be a proper Christian you had to keep the Mosaic Law and probably also their own version of the "Oral Torah" (which was different from the one of the Pharisees which later evolved into that of Rabbinic Judaism), but though a lot of Ebionite themes re-emerged in Islam (for instance the whole concept of the falsification of Scriptures) originally the "Hagarites" (Proto-Muslims) were actually purely Jewish (though not Talmudic Jewish). The early history of Islam is actually pretty mysterious. I really recommend this book which is based on non-Islamic sources on the early Arab invasions;

    Hagarism; The Making Of The Islamic World Crone, Cook : Patricia Crone : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

    Out of curiousness I looked up yesterday the lad who wrote the definitive book on Ebionitism, I was expecting him to be some average member of the German academic elite but he turned out to be a total and utter character;

    Hans-Joachim Schoeps - Wikipedia

    The Construction of Ancient Jewish Christianity in the Twentieth Century: The Cases of Hans-Joachim Schoeps and Jean Daniélou
     
  7. Anglophile

    Anglophile Respected Member Political Irish

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    :rofl:
     
  8. Dublin 4

    Dublin 4 Legend Political Irish Donator

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    :rolleyes:
     
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  9. Generation Snowflake

    Generation Snowflake Member Political Irish

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    This always confuses me, I see that as abrahamic in my head, i always consider modern jewish to be rabbinic judaism, and not the same thing.

    Im probably just talking nonsense ?

    Can the protestant split be seen alone pagan lines as well, northern europe and england as example, lent towards protestantism not just by history, but through the influences like the vikings who were more inclined to the old testament, vs the celts who would be less inclined toward the fire and wrath of the old testament. The greek vs roman thinking, east vs west may have influenced the 3=1 issue around the Arius controversy, etc..

    In relation to the koran, its influenced by the old and new testament and stories about alexander the great. Its just I see the arabs being attracted to the old testament more then the new.

    Any of these connections are new to me, will need to look it all up, thanks.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
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  10. SwordOfStCatherine

    SwordOfStCatherine Legend Political Irish

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    Why do you find that funny Tele? I lot of people in the Middle East have Jewish blood in their veins. There has been a Jewish presence in Arabia going back to Old Testament times.
     
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  11. OP
    Tadhg Gaelach

    Tadhg Gaelach Legend Political Irish Donator

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    I think Judaism is a natural expression of the Semitic mindset - and of course that includes the Arabs. There may be different trends in Judaism, but they all relate to a racial feeling, i.e. the feeling of what it is to speak a Semitic language and have Semitic blood running in your veins. It's for this reason that I don't think Christianity can even be a religion for Aryan people, as it relates to a fundamentally alien feeling \ emotional understanding of the world.

    As for Protestantism, I'd regard it was a Germanic rebellion against the Roman Empire and Roman culture. The Germans had never really been conquered militarily by the Romans and they fought many bloody battles to keep it that way, but, they ended up being culturally and religiously under Rome anyway. The Celts had been so long under Rome that they didn't feel Rome as very alien - I'm talking about the territories of Gaul, the Iberian Peninsula and the Celtic parts of Britain and Ireland. The one area that totally bucked this trend was Gaelic Scotland. It took to Calvinism like a fish to water. I really have no explanation for that. Maybe Sword will have some enlightening thoughts on that matter.
     
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  12. SwordOfStCatherine

    SwordOfStCatherine Legend Political Irish

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    Do you have a source for that? That would be extremely interesting. I found out recently that David Lane, an American Neo-Nazi ideologue and terrorist, believed that the Old Testament was brilliant and so claimed that it was essentially "Western" because it had all been stolen from the ancient Persians (yes of course there was significant Iranian influence on Second Temple Judaism), while as the New Testament was "Eastern" and poisonous. The exact opposite to what Alfred Rosenberg himself argued!
     
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  13. FairstoodtheWind

    FairstoodtheWind Member Political Irish

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    The amount of time and energy expended in trawling over these desert cults.
     
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  14. Generation Snowflake

    Generation Snowflake Member Political Irish

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    I dont really. https://normancenturies.com/rss.xml I listen to a lot of podcasts, I thought this was a good one on the normans.

    He talks about rolo Rollo - Wikipedia in the first episode, he converted to Christianity and on his death bed, hedged his bets so to speak, sacrificing 100 prisoners to odin and giving a hundred pounds of gold to the church. So 16 minutes in for only about 40 seconds he talks about it linked here , http://normancenturies.com/media/01-rollo-and-the-viking-age.mp3 , he talks about how the in next generation of normans/vikings christianity did take hold, and he thinks their viking nature would be more in line with old testament thinking then new testament turn the cheek, and also why they were at the head of the first crusade.

    I like the general idea. War is inherent to Odin and the old testament god was very vengeful/wrathful.
    I had other ideas around it, similar to how "turn the other cheek", "walk another mile" and "give the man your cloak" are nothing to do with being meek, but to do with being defiant, that our understanding of the old testament is lost or muddied in a way they understood better. Similar to how Constantine may have seen Jesus like his god of war. Anyway I nothing concrete or referable, its just crap i had in by head around it.

    I do not know enough on what you are talking about to give much else.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
  15. Heraclitus

    Heraclitus Member Political Irish

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    It's just a quirk of our history. The Abrahamic cults, particularly Christianity and Islam, are almost tailor made for mass propagation; they're easy to convert to and hard to leave.
    Semites are a race of hucksters and hagglers. And given their proximity to Europe and the commercial opportunities made possible by the Roman empire, Christianity's spread was inevitable.

    Nero saw Xtianity for what it was, and I suspect this is the reason he's been demonised.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
  16. Heraclitus

    Heraclitus Member Political Irish

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    The Welsh are (or were in the past at least) staunch Methodists, and they're easily the most Celtic population in Britain and Ireland.
     
  17. SwordOfStCatherine

    SwordOfStCatherine Legend Political Irish

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    Welsh Methodism though has very little in that of the United States which tends to a puerile bourgeois optimism and a shallow humanitarianism (sadly a lot of Irish people in the South have been taught superficial and coyly sentimental humanitarianism by people who were supposed to be teaching them Catholicism which is why a lot of them turned into bitter atheists when the brutality of life gave a small whack across the cheek). No it tends to come in much more "sombre" and "dark" colours which is why in part the Welsh refer to it as "Fethodistaidd Galfinaidd" or Calvinistic Methodism. Calvinistic Methodists can often carry a great Spiritual depth and weight to them which can be very impressive. What annoys me about them is their tendency towards pacifism at least when it comes to other people, they can be fine with destroying property violently under certain circumstances.
     
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  18. Anglophile

    Anglophile Respected Member Political Irish

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  19. SwordOfStCatherine

    SwordOfStCatherine Legend Political Irish

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    Anglophile you would be great propaganda against the belief that the Ashkenazim are the world's brightest sometimes.
     
  20. Anglophile

    Anglophile Respected Member Political Irish

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    Why is that, pray tell??:rolleyes:

    Go on - make an idiot of yourself again!!!:smiley: