• This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn more.
  • To post you need to register an account and await approval. Click Here to sign up!

Can a black person ever be Irish?

Tadhg Gaelach

Legend
Donator
Premium Account
Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2016
Messages
23,613
Likes
19,164
Points
313
#1



When this question arises, as it often does in Ireland in one form or another, the usual response is - Sure, wasn't Phil Lynnott and Paul McGrath Irish?

Our own Earnán Ó Maille often tells us about the Irish Ashanti, those people of the Caribbean who are the fruit of forced mating between kidnapped Irish girls and kidnapped Africans.

And I don't say that these arguments are wrong. But, it's also clear that a black person born in Ireland, even if only one parent is of African stock, is Irish plus African. They are not 100% Irish. They possess a surplus to being Irish. And this should be a good thing. Why would they want to restrict themselves to being only part of what they are?

And we see this dynamic in the USA. Black people are referred to as African Americans. Not just Americans. Only one group are referred to as just Americans, and those are those of English stock. And that makes sense. The USA is the bastard child of England. It's language is the language of England. It's laws are the laws of Englishmen. Its cultural mores are the cultural mores of Englishmen. Everyone else is X + American. Irish American, Italian American - even Native American. They can never be 100% American. They all possess a surplus to being American.

And so when we look at a black schoolboy in an Irish school uniform, we are not terrible wacists because our eyes tell us that he is something other than Irish. He is something other than Irish. He will always also be African. And so those who are 100% Irish do have a right to recognise the fact that we are uniquely Irish, uniquely Celtic - without having moronic SJWs and Libtards calling us wacists and whatever other term of abuse is flavour of the moment with this demented clique.
 

Olli Rehn

Member
Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2015
Messages
3,774
Likes
469
Points
183
#2



When this question arises, as it often does in Ireland in one form or another, the usual response is - Sure, wasn't Phil Lynnott and Paul McGrath Irish?

Our own Earnán Ó Maille often tells us about the Irish Ashanti, those people of the Caribbean who are the fruit of forced mating between kidnapped Irish girls and kidnapped Africans.

And I don't say that these arguments are wrong. But, it's also clear that a black person born in Ireland, even if only one parent is of African stock, is Irish plus African. They are not 100% Irish. They possess a surplus to being Irish. And this should be a good thing. Why would they want to restrict themselves to being only part of what they are?

And we see this dynamic in the USA. Black people are referred to as African Americans. Not just Americans. Only one group are referred to as just Americans, and those are those of English stock. And that makes sense. The USA is the bastard child of England. It's language is the language of England. It's laws are the laws of Englishmen. Its cultural mores are the cultural mores of Englishmen. Everyone else is X + American. Irish American, Italian American - even Native American. They can never be 100% American. They all possess a surplus to being American.

And so when we look at a black schoolboy in an Irish school uniform, we are not terrible wacists because our eyes tell us that he is something other than Irish. He is something other than Irish. He will always also be African. And so those who are 100% Irish do have a right to recognise the fact that we are uniquely Irish, uniquely Celtic - without having moronic SJWs and Libtards calling us wacists and whatever other term of abuse is flavour of the moment with this demented clique.
Another idiotic racist post.
There is no "pure" Irish person in the whole world. Never was, never will be.
You fucktard keep beating the fascist drum !
 

Youngdan

Legend
Staff member
Donator
Premium Account
Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Messages
9,087
Likes
4,061
Points
313
#3
A black person can be Irish. I actually knew a man here from Conemara that was irish spoken.
If he was typical then there would be a different situation than exists. Modern immigrants have no great interest in becoming irisk or American or anything else. Frequently they hate they place and really hate the native. They like the Yankees dollar though for some reason.
Anyone waiting for the Muslims in Mayo to start climbing Croak Patrick is as crazy as a loon. In a 1000 years they will be still the same as today except they will be hungry, wet and cold because the natives will have died out or been killed 940 years before.
 

Bi Ciuin

Political Irish
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Messages
86
Likes
40
Points
18
#4
Good post and one that requires some thought. naturally if someone has a parent of Irish stock then I would consider said person Irish.

If said person moved here and got a passport , then i do not consider them Irish.

If said person came here had a child , i would not consider either of them Irish.
 
OP
OP
Tadhg Gaelach

Tadhg Gaelach

Legend
Donator
Premium Account
Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2016
Messages
23,613
Likes
19,164
Points
313
#5
I'm not saying any of this to hurt people of mixed blood. It's just a question of being realistic and not let yourself be overcome with Liberal fantasies. We see that many of the Irish middle class dream that they can become English. They call the housing estates they live in ridiculous names like "Kempton," "Eton Park," "Buckingham Road." Catholics with this mania even send their children to Church of Ireland schools with the warped idea that this will really make them English. (I wonder what the Church of Ireland really thinks about this particular form of Gobshitery). But, the fact remains that no matter how often they read the Guardian, or listen to the Queen's Christmas Message, they or their children will never be English. As Freud said, our body is our fate.
 

smurftool

Legend
Donator
Premium Account
Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2016
Messages
9,020
Likes
5,304
Points
313
#6
Of course a black person can be Irish, I have no qualms about anyone coming to Ireland and taking up Irish Citizenship providing they come here for the right reasons, coming here just for a better life and using us is not reason enough to be considered Irish.

Coming here for a love of the culture and wanting to enrich themselves and become every part an Irish person as you and me is quite acceptable in my opinion. Of course that would be ditching any religion that wasn't Christian and leaving behind all your ties to your previous country.
 
Joined
Oct 30, 2015
Messages
6,063
Likes
7,168
Points
313
#7
A black person can be Irish. I actually knew a man here from Conemara that was irish spoken.
If he was typical then there would be a different situation than exists. Modern immigrants have no great interest in becoming irisk or American or anything else. Frequently they hate they place and really hate the native. They like the Yankees dollar though for some reason.
Anyone waiting for the Muslims in Mayo to start climbing Croak Patrick is as crazy as a loon. In a 1000 years they will be still the same as today except they will be hungry, wet and cold because the natives will have died out or been killed 940 years before.
This isn't true of very many English and nearly all the German immigrants to Ireland but they tend to move to Ireland for non-economic reasons and are able to support themselves within the law (Nigerians often seem incapable of that when they move to Ireland- something that a lot of people here don't know is that East Africans tend to look down on West Africans and everyone in Africa looks down on Nigerians). That said the Germans can cause problems by shoving up property prices in rural areas.
 

Youngdan

Legend
Staff member
Donator
Premium Account
Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Messages
9,087
Likes
4,061
Points
313
#8
Of course a black person can be Irish, I have no qualms about anyone coming to Ireland and taking up Irish Citizenship providing they come here for the right reasons, coming here just for a better life and using us is not reason enough to be considered Irish.

Coming here for a love of the culture and wanting to enrich themselves and become every part an Irish person as you and me is quite acceptable in my opinion. Of course that would be ditching any religion that wasn't Christian and leaving behind all your ties to your previous country.
I think this post sums up reality best.
99.9% of people coming do not want to be Irish. Here, that figure would be less but significant and growing. The result being that 3 generations later, they are still speaking spanish, as they will still speak Arabic in 5 years after 3 generations also.
The mood here is swinging to deport the whole lot of them, imo.
 
OP
OP
Tadhg Gaelach

Tadhg Gaelach

Legend
Donator
Premium Account
Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2016
Messages
23,613
Likes
19,164
Points
313
#9
Of course a black person can be Irish, I have no qualms about anyone coming to Ireland and taking up Irish Citizenship providing they come here for the right reasons, coming here just for a better life and using us is not reason enough to be considered Irish.

Coming here for a love of the culture and wanting to enrich themselves and become every part an Irish person as you and me is quite acceptable in my opinion. Of course that would be ditching any religion that wasn't Christian and leaving behind all your ties to your previous country.

I wouldn't have any respect for someone who left behind the language and culture of his ancestors. I wouldn't trust such a person.
 
OP
OP
Tadhg Gaelach

Tadhg Gaelach

Legend
Donator
Premium Account
Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2016
Messages
23,613
Likes
19,164
Points
313
#10
I think the bottom line is that a white man's skin is always too white for the intensity of the African sun, and a black man's skin is always too black for the pale European sun.
 

TheWexfordInn

Respected Member
Donator
Premium Account
Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2015
Messages
1,777
Likes
1,845
Points
163
#11
I was reading the abstract earlier today of someones thesis about the identity of Pakistanis in Ireland:

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/...scroll=top&needAccess=true&journalCode=rdst20

The point I thought was interesting is that he sees "being Irish" as having three components - civic, ethnic and cultural.

So anyone with an immigrant background can be civically Irish - ie fulfil the technical criteria of becoming an Irish citizen. An immigrant can become culturally Irish ie adhere to a lifestyle which would be regarded as "Irish" but if both parents are immigrants will not become ethnically Irish - ie wont ever have Irish ancestry or "blood".

So I think first off you would have to get your definition of what it means to be Irish straight, you refer to Phil Lynott and Paul McGrath, I think both fulfil the criteria of being civically, ethnically and culturally Irish so are unequivocally Irish.

That Halawa guy in an Egyptian prison however only ticks the "civically" box, there is no way he could pass any reasonable definition of being culturally or ethnically Irish.
 
Joined
Mar 17, 2016
Messages
4,303
Likes
6,442
Points
263
Location
The land of the golden potato
#12
There's no absolute answer to what constitutes Irish that closes the debate -- even if there's universal agreement on certain assumptions. But the effort is mired in abject confusion as the moderns have a big problem with things they can't quantify. So frustrated and all autistic-like, most left-liberals lapse into you just have to 'think' you're Irish, then you're Irish. In the same way that when men 'think' they are women, they are women.

I would also say that reducing things to skin colour is also an error of modernists.

To be Irish you have to emerge from the Irish family in some substantive way. It's a heady mix of environment, blood and culture. And, yes, it can happen a black person mets these qualitative criteria.

Getting bits of paper or a booklet from this garbage state and that's enough to be Irish is just meaningless stupidity. That's just a grotesque charade particularly as this state embraces globalism.
 

maxflinn

Legend
Donator
Premium Account
Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Messages
3,897
Likes
4,675
Points
263
#13
There's no such thing as a totally Irish person if we're all descended from Africans.
 
OP
OP
Tadhg Gaelach

Tadhg Gaelach

Legend
Donator
Premium Account
Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2016
Messages
23,613
Likes
19,164
Points
313
#14
There's no absolute answer to what constitutes Irish that closes the debate -- even if there's universal agreement on certain assumptions. But the effort is mired in abject confusion as the moderns have a big problem with things they can't quantify. So frustrated and all autistic-like, most left-liberals lapse into you just have to 'think' you're Irish, then you're Irish. In the same way that when men 'think' they are women, they are women.

I would also say that reducing things to skin colour is also an error of modernists.

To be Irish you have to emerge from the Irish family in some substantive way. It's a heady mix of environment, blood and culture. And, yes, it can happen a black person mets these qualitative criteria.

Getting bits of paper or a booklet from this garbage state and that's enough to be Irish is just meaningless stupidity. That's just a grotesque charade particularly as this state embraces globalism.

Good points a chara. I don't really like the word "Irish" anyway. It's an English word, so it ultimately an English concept. There is no doubt as to what a Gael is.
 

Olli Rehn

Member
Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2015
Messages
3,774
Likes
469
Points
183
#17
I'm not saying any of this to hurt people of mixed blood. It's just a question of being realistic and not let yourself be overcome with Liberal fantasies. We see that many of the Irish middle class dream that they can become English. They call the housing estates they live in ridiculous names like "Kempton," "Eton Park," "Buckingham Road." Catholics with this mania even send their children to Church of Ireland schools with the warped idea that this will really make them English. (I wonder what the Church of Ireland really thinks about this particular form of Gobshitery). But, the fact remains that no matter how often they read the Guardian, or listen to the Queen's Christmas Message, they or their children will never be English. As Freud said, our body is our fate.




Of course nobody wants to hurt anybody......
 

Youngdan

Legend
Staff member
Donator
Premium Account
Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Messages
9,087
Likes
4,061
Points
313
#20
This isn't true of very many English and nearly all the German immigrants to Ireland but they tend to move to Ireland for non-economic reasons and are able to support themselves within the law (Nigerians often seem incapable of that when they move to Ireland- something that a lot of people here don't know is that East Africans tend to look down on West Africans and everyone in Africa looks down on Nigerians). That said the Germans can cause problems by shoving up property prices in rural areas.
A German is just a slow irishman