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Can a Christian be a good Democrat?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by SwordOfStCatherine, Nov 22, 2017.

  1. SwordOfStCatherine

    SwordOfStCatherine Legend Battle Royale Political Irish

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    Strictly speaking if you are going to be an Anglican you have to believe in a Theocratic Monarchy however these days only converts to Anglicanism from Presbyterianism take this seriously (I used to take it very seriously). Presbyterianism tends towards Theocratic Republicanism (Richard Cameron, the "Lion of the Covenant" was a Republican) and there have been various plans of varying degrees of wackiness drawn up over the years for a Calvinist Republic of Ulster. Catholicism doesn't exactly bless one form of government over another but generally prefers Monarchy (I would highly recommend St Thomas Aquinas's and Dante's writing on the subject), however this is not the case in Ireland where outside of SSPX most Catholics are in love with Political Liberalism. You though have some Catholic Traditionalists such as my mum in law and Bishop Richard Williamson who are opposed to Democracy per se.

    The Russian student I have befriended here believes that Democracy is incompatible with the concept of Revelation. If things have been Revealed by God that makes True and Just no matter what the fickle masses think. Also I'm not sure than anyone with strong principles be they Socialist or Libertarian ones can be a good Democrat.
     
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  2. OP
    SwordOfStCatherine

    SwordOfStCatherine Legend Battle Royale Political Irish

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  3. Tadhg Gaelach

    Tadhg Gaelach Legend Donator Battle Royale Political Irish

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    I suppose the Greek version of democracy was compatible with Greek religion, but there certainly has never been a religion that is compatible with Liberalism, and thus with Liberal Democracy.
     
  4. OP
    SwordOfStCatherine

    SwordOfStCatherine Legend Battle Royale Political Irish

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    As regards the event it seems that this Declan Ganley character is mixed up with the CIA;

    Libertas: US Military Contractors Against Lisbon! - Indymedia Ireland

    I strongly suspect that David Quinn is CIA and is using his support for cultural conservative stances to poison Irish Catholic minds with Zionism and Americanism. A thing is though that outside of myself and the SSPX Irish Catholics are in love with Democracy.

    E Michael Jones has interesting stuff to say about how the CIA attempts to use Catholicism;

     
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  5. The Potato Mystic

    The Potato Mystic Legend Battle Royale Political Irish

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    I doubt Quinn is CIA. He rarely talks about geopolitical issues and he's not looked upon for that. He doesn't have a mass following either, people just look to him for the social commentator stuff. The establishment hates him too.

    Ganley is a different kettle of fish and he circulated a political book rubbishing neutrality and I think plugging Ireland in NATO if I recall it. Although he's not liked either by the establishment, he's got cash so he might steer things in bad directions eventually. In fact, he's probably one of those types that doesn't need to be on a spook payroll, he's passionate enough to do all this on his own! That said, all these types are needed to fight for the 8th.

    Anyhow if democracy can't be wished away, then a good Christian works with what's before him. In fact if democracy is intolerable for a primordial Christian, then I'd have to say the desacralisation that comes with modern technocratic society is probably in his bad books too.
     
  6. OP
    SwordOfStCatherine

    SwordOfStCatherine Legend Battle Royale Political Irish

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    He does plug Zionism and American interests from time to time. And do they really hate him? They certainly don't hate him in the same manner that they despise Desmond Fennell (who is actually often an interesting thinker a lot of the time, I have great respect for him).

    This is true. A big difference between me and the Opus Dei and Iona types is that I do see something demonic in technology while as they are very enthusiastic about technological progress. I used to actually be basically a Deep Ecologist. Bishop Richard Williamson by the way has praised the Unabomber manifesto.
     
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  7. Heraclitus

    Heraclitus Member Political Irish

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    The whole point of democracy is that, as terrible as it is at times, it confers a degree legitimacy on the government in the eyes of the governed.

    Liberal democracy provides a platform for peaceful compromise between disparate groups -- at least within relatively homogeneous societies.
    Your notion of a Christian monarchy would disinfranchise non-Christians, like myself, who would be left with little option other than violent secession if we found such a system intolerable.

    Provided there's a strong constitutional veto on the whims of mob elected demagogues, as exists imperfectly in most developed countries, then democracy can function well-ish. It's the least bad of all other political systems to paraphrase Churchill.

    The perfect system doesn't exist.

    “Politics are, as it were, the market place and the price mechanism of all social demands – though there is no guarantee that a just price will be struck; and there is nothing spontaneous about politics- it depends on deliberate and continuous activity.”
    — Bernard Crick
     
  8. Heraclitus

    Heraclitus Member Political Irish

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    I should also add that strong local autonomy is an essential check on the excesses of central government.
    In this regard, the Swiss have the right idea.
     
  9. The Potato Mystic

    The Potato Mystic Legend Battle Royale Political Irish

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    He got enormous amount of abuse for opposing the Care Bear referendum. That was supposed to be an unanimous syrupy festival celebrating the New Ireland and Quinn's antics did unnerve them. Particularity as Kenny has been defeated before and with the rise of populism generally. Quinn drafted in the very eloquent Paddy Manning so he wanted to win the thing and upstage the establishment.. Manning is one of these Zionist types too btw.

    I've never picked up an iphone the same way since I read Heidegger in the subject! Impossible to uninvent things too so one has to roll with these things. Opus Dei have set themselves the task to penetrate the establishment with sponsored candidates. They want to wield power within an evil system presumably to put it on a more Catholic footing. Whilst I don't have any interest in them myself I can see the logic to it. Iona hasn't penetrated the establishment, it just embarrasses them on a whole range of their global engineering projects. Zappone's stuff is countered every step of the way. But Iona does use America as its polestar in part because social conservatives remain prominent political players despite their cuckery.
     
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  10. OP
    SwordOfStCatherine

    SwordOfStCatherine Legend Battle Royale Political Irish

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    Well you don't have to worry, Irish Catholics tend to be all convinced Democrats who see Democracy as an intrinsic good in and of itself. Half Nelson and TFM over on the other place who would be considered Ultra-Conservative Catholics by Irish standards are both convinced Democrats.

    I agree with you about no system being perfect, however I would add to that the best system for a particular place and time would be the worst for another. I never agreed with the "one size fits all" approach to Politics.
     
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  11. The Potato Mystic

    The Potato Mystic Legend Battle Royale Political Irish

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    I'd also say Fennell is a lousy fundraiser. Root and branch upstaging of every establishment value and being on good terms with RSF, all that's a bit hot to handle for regime institutions and its orbiting blocs.
     
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  12. Heraclitus

    Heraclitus Member Political Irish

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    The best political systems are the ones that can adapt overtime; what Nassim Taleb refers to as "anti-fragile".

    Totalitarian systems are rigid and sclerotic.
    Take Putin, for example. He has many admirable qualities IMO. But he has massively fragilised the Russian political system by centralising so much power in himself. And when fragile systems break, they break bad.

    Here NT summarises his worldview. He gets to politics at around the 2 minute mark.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2017
  13. OP
    SwordOfStCatherine

    SwordOfStCatherine Legend Battle Royale Political Irish

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    During the Troubles he advocated joint-authority, I believe that both he and the CPI were the only ones who showed actual maturity. While I have deep problems with RSF's support for military adventurism at the same time they do have a lot of redeeming features. Both RSF and Desmond Fennell are Patriotic disturbists so of course they are going to get along. Also being lousy fund raiser is maybe part of the reason he feels the freedom to lay things out as he sees them?
     
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  14. The Potato Mystic

    The Potato Mystic Legend Battle Royale Political Irish

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    Fennell is too hot too find a perch in academia (or at least a perch that gives him exposure) and he can't raise cash then he's in obscurity. I ain't havin' a go at Fennell for that at all but nevertheless the dilemma remains.
     
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  15. OP
    SwordOfStCatherine

    SwordOfStCatherine Legend Battle Royale Political Irish

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    He is a thinker and not a politician. My husband and I have significant political differences both something that we are united on is deep respect for him. Dublin 4 on here respects him, Tadgh respects and I think fundamentally you do as well, if he was concerned about fund raising and positioning himself as opposed to rationality and justice we wouldn't have so many of insights. People of quality know about him and love him, history will be incredibly kind to him.
     
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  16. The Potato Mystic

    The Potato Mystic Legend Battle Royale Political Irish

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    Yes but the dilemma remains. His ideas have not circulated. I'm not apportioning blame upon him at all but there's the dilemma.
     
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  17. Tadhg Gaelach

    Tadhg Gaelach Legend Donator Battle Royale Political Irish

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    In a small place like Ireland, it's very easy for the Régime to isolate and silence dissident voices. The level of bland conformity maintained here must be the envy of many dictatorships around the world.
     
  18. OP
    SwordOfStCatherine

    SwordOfStCatherine Legend Battle Royale Political Irish

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    He isn't that extreme at all, he has a deep but measured Patriotism (of the type I would like ideally all Gaels to have), he isn't some ultra-nationalist. The problem is that it is the establishment who are lula extremists with little or no concern for either the past or future. He calls them out on their extremism in a calm and rational manner. His ideas have circulated more than you think.
     
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  19. OP
    SwordOfStCatherine

    SwordOfStCatherine Legend Battle Royale Political Irish

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    Prods and the Orthodox often accuse Catholicism of making the external structures of the Church an end in and of itself, which while I think is unjust is definitely true of both the Jesuits and Opus Dei even if they hate each others guts. Look there is a major division in contemporary Irish Catholicism between those who are really into St Padre Pio and those who are really into Pope John Paul II (canonizations are not infallible and while I wouldn't go so far as my mum in law and say he is most probably in the hell fire he most certainly in my mind is not a Saint), this has been verbalized but it is at the same time something very real, I fall very much in the latter group and Opus Dei in the former. The Carlists in Spain hate them with a passion and as a Jacobite they are my sisters and brothers. Partido Carlista with their strong sense of actual social justice, concern for the environment and animal welfare are people who I really resonate with. Opus Dei have very similar beliefs to Dutch and American Calvinists (but not Welsh and Scottish ones) that wealth is a blessing and though they wont say it outright that being bourgeois is a sign of Election. Yes they live strict lives but they also are more than cool with the "charismatic renewal", horrible American Protestant "worship" music (just listen to Spirit FM) and used to be though they have chilled out on this very against the Latin Mass. My mum in law says about them "you don't fight fire with fire, you fight fire with water, Catholics should not behave as Masons".

    Why America and not Russia though?
     
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  20. The Potato Mystic

    The Potato Mystic Legend Battle Royale Political Irish

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    He's extreme tested on the globalist system which in itself extreme.

    I don't know if you are reading my posts but nowhere have a made the point that he's a molotov throwin', chest thumpin' 'ra head. A measured, pragmatic but an intuitive grasp of spiritual matters makes you anathema to the globalist system, which is a regime of lies and chaos that makes war on even very basic primal truths such as that associated with marriage. You fundamentally unmask globalist values, they won't like that one bit.

    Well, what I see is a 99% near total snowflake monopoly. What can I say? Right -- Fennell might retort in some unlikely exchange -- "listen pal, I'd did the donkey-work, it's you and your pals turn to think, add to and spread those values". And that would be a point you really couldn't argue with.