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Criteria for a hundred thousand welcomes.

Discussion in 'Immigration & Refugees' started by roc_, Jan 5, 2018.

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Do you agree the criteria outlined below by Avignor Lieberman is the most important one?

  1. Yes

    1 vote(s)
    25.0%
  2. No

    3 vote(s)
    75.0%
  1. roc_

    roc_ Member Political Irish

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    A couple of off topic comments on another thread got me thinking about this. It may be an instructive comparison to think about.
    Now, first, let's deal with the percentage demographics. Get that out of the way.

    It would appear from the post above, that the main area of concern is "Africans, Arabs, etc." as was mentioned.

    Taking Israel first, let's just focus on numbers of Arabs living there. (We know as well that the vast majority of them are Muslim). I think a simple graph will suffice to illustrate.

    [​IMG]

    Now what is the corresponding situation in Ireland? - Well here are a couple of graphs I put together to try and depict the reality. (open image in new tab to see the full size image).

    [​IMG]

    Alright.

    Next, let's deal with attitudes.

    We need to first put aside the "anti-Zionist" propaganda and deal with reality if we're going to get anywhere. - Of course, Israel is not in any meaningful way an "apartheid state". Nothing in Israel comes close to the definition of apartheid under the 1998 Rome Statute. (Israeli Arabs vote, work at the highest levels of Israeli governance, civil service and judiciary. They hold collective rights as a national minority, guaranteed equal rights under the law. They have a thriving media, literature and theatre scene. They have Arabic designated as an official language. Arab patients lie alongside Jewish patients in Israeli hospitals, receiving identical treatment, and so on and so on. Opinion | Israel and the Apartheid Slander etc.)

    Importantly, in all major and significant strands of Zionism, the aim has been to establish a friendly and constructive co- operation with the Arabs to benefit both sections of the population materially and spiritually.

    (It is only a sign of the mass appeal of the Arab extremist "anti-Zionist" propaganda that most people on here will choke on their cornflakes at the above, but it is absolutely true.)

    So, the question is, WHAT IS THE ISSUE, in reality. - What criteria should we apply to welcoming new arrivals to our land? What is the criteria that ought to drive our attitudes to immigration?

    To answer this question, I want to suggest we have a look towards one of the furthest politically right (allegedly), and most demonised of Israeli politicians. (Note that I only draw on that kind of person, mainly because if I drew on a 'Left' or Labour Zionist, who indeed often say the same thing, I would be accused by people on here of representing an untypical view.)

    Without further ado, here is Avigdor Lieberman.

    - In the following article he wrote, we find that what he is calling for, the criteria he is advocating, is "responsible citizenship". (And we find that like most other people in Israel, he also explicitly states that "I welcome the contribution of minorities to Israel’s flourishing.".)

    The Case For ‘Responsible Citizenship’ in Israel

    So, I suggest that is what people on here should be looking at.

    Vis - any problems that arise (btw I am not talking about the problems that the work-shy, small-endowed and battered-sausage-complexioned Irish have with many of our recent arrivals), and I am not denying that problems arise, are NOT due to:
    • Country of origin.
    • Colour of skin.
    • Racial or ethnic particulars.
    • Religion.
    • Certain cultural reservednesses.
    • Traditional tribal awarenesses.
    • Non-adaptive conformity.
    • And so on.

    The problem, the only problem, the only criteria that should ever be applied to judge whether we are welcoming or not, is whether they have an intent to be a good Irish citizen - to develop a certain faithfulness for our land, and our way of life, and not to try and attack it and/or undermine it.

    Btw, this even includes Islamists (a Muslim who believes Islam has something to say beyond the private sphere). As there are some who do not cling to the negative and inhumane aspects, and the fanatic and discriminatory aspects, of Islam, and who believe in democracy and the duties of citizenship etc.

    That is not to dismiss the likelihood of there being seditious currents in say the Clonskeagh mosque, and to say they should be rooted out. Of course they should. (Btw it's not just the Clonskeagh mosque - I note many so called Irish on here, even calling themselves, wrongly, 'patriots', would appear not to meet the important criteria, and I think they ought to be treated in the same manner as Islamists who seek the destruction of the state.)

    The main points stand though (a) it is wrong to judge of the likelihood of being a high-risk, bad citizen based on such factors as I bullet-pointed above (b) I think we could learn a lot of good things in this regard from the Israeli Jews about this.

    Anyway, do people agree this is the important criteria? You can answer the poll if you like.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
  2. maxflinn

    maxflinn Legend Donator Battle Royale Political Irish

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    The only reason there's so many 'Arabs' in Israel is that they already lived there when Israel was created, on their land.

    There'd be 700,000 more too only for they were ethnically cleansed by Israel during the Nakba.

    The only immigrants Israel takes in are Jews, unless they're the wrong colour Jews ie, black :rolleyes:

    And Israel is indeed an Apartheid state because millions of the Palestinians living under Israeli rule cannot vote in Israeli elections.

    Avigdor Liberman is a terrorist who once said Palestinians living in Israel who do not support Israel should be beheaded!
     
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  3. OP
    roc_

    roc_ Member Political Irish

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    Yawn. Lie. Repeat. Distort. Repeat. Misrepresent. Repeat... Repeat...

    [​IMG]

    How about answering on the substantive point made? The actual question?
     
  4. maxflinn

    maxflinn Legend Donator Battle Royale Political Irish

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    Everything I said there is true.
     
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  5. maxflinn

    maxflinn Legend Donator Battle Royale Political Irish

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  6. OP
    roc_

    roc_ Member Political Irish

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    No, it's not true. Israel was not created on "Palestinian land"; The 700,000 displaced in the 1948 war were not "ethnically cleansed"; Israel does take in black Jews - it's criteria is whether they deem you might be a threat to the Israeli population or who might engage in activities intended to harm Jews; The Arabs in the territories cannot vote because they do not live under Israeli rule; That is a complete and utter misrepresentation of Lieberman...

    Of course you well know your slogans are lies, and that their intent is not to elucidate truth, but to do something else.

    I'm putting you on ignore now, because you are a repetitive waste of space.

    Knock yourself out with your hateful anti-Israel websites and propaganda.

    Hopefully someone else on here will be able to address the actual substance.
     
  7. maxflinn

    maxflinn Legend Donator Battle Royale Political Irish

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    The reason you're putting me on ignore is that I debunk your propaganda and lies, and you don't like that.

    Everything I said in my first post in this thread is true.
     
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  8. maxflinn

    maxflinn Legend Donator Battle Royale Political Irish

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  9. maxflinn

    maxflinn Legend Donator Battle Royale Political Irish

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    Israel purports to be a liberal democracy, whereas in fact it is anything but.

    What it is is a terrorist, apartheid, colonialist state based on ethno-supremacist ideology: Zionism.
     
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  10. SwordOfStCatherine

    SwordOfStCatherine Legend Battle Royale Political Irish

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    This new thing of roc_ portraying the Zionist colonial as some sort of multi-racial and multi-ethnic paradise of love, tolerance and respect between different groups is whether sincere or not just not just true. A lot of Myles views on these matters wouldn't be tolerated in polite Irish society, even by those who have grave concerns about mass immigration, however his attitudes are mainstream in the Zionist project. This interview with a Jewess who went over to the Zionist colonial project as a based Zionist and was stunned and appalled by just as racist and lacking in basic human empathy Zionist society is in Palestine is interesting:



    This gives some background on racism in supposedly liberal and tolerant Tel Aviv;

     
  11. SwordOfStCatherine

    SwordOfStCatherine Legend Battle Royale Political Irish

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  12. SwordOfStCatherine

    SwordOfStCatherine Legend Battle Royale Political Irish

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    roc_ I really would wish that you would go to Aliyah and live in Palestine for a bit. Have grown up and lived surrounded by the Gaels with their strong sense of empathy and universal justice I think despite yourself even you could not not be horrified at least after a while by majority of Zionist society there just like the lady in the first video I posted. You can rest assured that both Max and I would welcome you back, even if Myles and my sister wouldn't.
     
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  13. SwordOfStCatherine

    SwordOfStCatherine Legend Battle Royale Political Irish

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    Avigdor Lieberman in the piece roc_ was able to dig up on archive.org (interesting that he could- fan of the Yisrael Beiteinu Party are we? Makes sense) is calling for the indigenous citizens of the Zionist colonial project to be stripped of their citizenship unless they get on board fully with Zionism. During the Troubles in Northern Ireland the really out there Loyalist head bangers advocated doing the same to people from the CNR community if they weren't going to fully get on board with partition. I'm wary of comparisons between Palestine and Ulster but nobody, even the most based Prod, would have presented George Seawright as a reasonable chap to outsiders.
     
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  14. SwordOfStCatherine

    SwordOfStCatherine Legend Battle Royale Political Irish

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    Would you ever stop it you chancer. From "The Ashkenazi Revolution" which I recommend highly for people to really get to grips with the extreme Zionist mind set of people such as yourself (it is arguing not for Jewish supremacism in general but Ashkenazi supremacism in particular and lauds the irrationalism of Ashkenazim as being greatly superior to Mizrachi and Sephardic rationalism);

    " The livelihoods of Jews, during the generations of exile, include many professions of usury and of ownership of taverns and they are not moral. The expulsion of the Arabs from the Land of Israel in the year 1948 was not moral. When morality is an obstacle to the People of Israel, in its quest to conquer time and guarantee its eternity, the People of Israel ignores morality and tramples it in the dust."- that is to be found on page 18 of the first (and most interesting chapter- which I might do a thread on). That lad was actively involved in expelling them and in the terrorism that proceeded the foundation of the Zionist State.

    https://jewamongyou.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/the-ashkenazi-revolution2.pdf
     
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  15. OP
    roc_

    roc_ Member Political Irish

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    So, the radical anti Israel antisemites are so stirred up that all they can do is rabidly and predictably trawl their usual favourite hate sites for their tropes and familiar mob fodder. Quelle surprise.

    Now do any of the racist ultra nationalist, Irish land for local Irish people contingent on here want to try to address the issue of substance?

    Cheers.
     
  16. SwordOfStCatherine

    SwordOfStCatherine Legend Battle Royale Political Irish

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    "Jew among you" though it does sound like anti-Semitic website I must admit is actually the site of an Orthodox Jewish Religious Zionist who was involved in setting up the Shas Party. He does though despise the Kabbalah, you may or may not know quite a few, particularly Mizrachi and Sephardic Orthodox Jews do- the "Reform" and "Conservative" movements used to be totally against it but that has changed since the 1970s which is something of a worrying development. It is very interesting to me that even though Islam and Rabbinic Judaism are extremely similar Religions that you find the most universalist thinking and feeling Muslims among the Sufis and the Mystical Shia while it is the mystical traditions of Judaism that are not only the ones least universalist but actually most given to the literal demonization of the "Other"- why do you think that this is so?
     
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  17. dwayne

    dwayne Member

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    Safe your bullcrap,ZIONISTS ARE EXPOSED FOR ALL TO SEE
     
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  18. SwordOfStCatherine

    SwordOfStCatherine Legend Battle Royale Political Irish

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    A based Jew with ROI citizenship who is hysterically opposed to the mildest Irish Nationalism while supporting the Yisrael Beiteinu Party in the Zionist colonial project lecturing your average Irish person about "tolerance" and "responsible citizenship" is a bit much I must admit.
     
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  19. OP
    roc_

    roc_ Member Political Irish

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    Just for any young visitors to the site who might be considering taking the pseudo-religious, antisemitic, throwback nut, calling herself SwordOfStCatherine/RatioEtFides, in any manner half-seriously, here is a very brief medley of her essential views:

     
  20. Myles O'Reilly

    Myles O'Reilly Legend Donator Battle Royale Political Irish

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    How in the name of sweet Jesus is that wrong? What the fu*k WOULD you judge them on?

    Why the phukk would you bring in a problem demographic in the first place when you know you'll have to root out a percentage of bad 'uns?

    Why bring a single Muslim into Ireland other than say if we had a need for eg heart surgeons and we couldn't source them out of the 500 million EU citizens?
     
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