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David McWilliams supports former Irish Diplomat "that Ireland considers a future of outside the EU!"

Discussion in 'The Brexit Forum' started by Dublin 4, Apr 3, 2017.

  1. Olli Rehn

    Olli Rehn Legend Battle Royale Political Irish

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    Good dog ! I sign that.
     
  2. El Chaval.

    El Chaval. Member Political Irish

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    OK. I've never been to Ukraine......but this is how I see past events.
    One.
    Ukraine was offered a trade deal with the EU, but decided democratically to take a deal with Russia instead. A deal that best favoured Ukrainian people.
    Two.
    Aghast at the thought, the EU and US State Department, then set about fomenting the rabble in Kiev (a minority but violent rump).
    Three.
    Terrified of Western reprisals, the Ukrainian Govt sent in unarmed police and Aunt Sallys against this violent mob. They were quickly over-powered, beaten and set on fire.
    Four.
    The President flees the country in fear of his life.
    Five.
    Anti Russian mobs stalk the cities. Ukrainian politicians are heard on their phones talking about nuking Russians in the east of the country. Proposals are made to jail people with dual nationality and expel ethnic Russians.
    Six.
    Russian ethnics in places like Odessa take to the streets to protest peacefully. They are beaten, shot and over 50 are burned alive.
    Seven.
    After watching these ghastly events, Crimeans demand a referendum to secede from Kiev. They win overwhelmingly and break away.




    Russia at all times stayed out of Ukrainian events until the attacks in Odessa and threats from Kiev. Then they rightly acted.
    Ukraine has only itself to blame. They allowed themselves to be manipulated and used as pawns by the EU and NATO.
    Had they just accepted the democratic wish to trade with Russia instead of the EU, I'm quite sure they would be better off today, and Crimea would still be in Ukraine.
     
  3. TheWexfordInn

    TheWexfordInn Respected Member Donator Battle Royale Political Irish

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    1) Ukraine made a deal about an association agreement with the EU. This had overwhelming support across the people of Ukraine, among Parliament and had the public support of the President.

    2) In the days approaching the signing of the deal a small group of students set up a celebratory festival in the main square in Kyiv to welcome the planned signing of the agreement which by the 29th had grown to a few thousand.

    4) On the eve of the signing of the deal Russia jumped in and made the Ukrainian President an offer he couldn't refuse to reject that deal without any consultation of Parliament much less without reference to the Population and the President went off on a solo run to sign it.

    5) The next day the riot Police at 4 am dispersed the entirely peaceful occupants of the square with extreme violence.

    6) The Population was outraged at a) the Presidents action in rejecting the agreement and b) the outrageous violence shown against what was at that point an entirely peaceful demonstration resulting in rioting breaking out all over Ukraine and a rally organised a few days later that attracted up to a million people.

    7) Several thousand of those people announced that they were not going to leave and set up what they announced was a permanent encampment in that square which they announced they would defend until death.

    8) An uneasy stalemate between the protesters and the police with occasional scuffles but was mostly a standoff.

    9) The Winter started closing in, the numbers of people in the square started falling.

    10) Towards the end of January the President at the behest of Putin who was now feeling embarrassed by this ongoing demonstration against his Ukrainian agreement told his forces to use whatever force was required to clear the demonstrations. In the ensuing attacks by his forces three of the protesters were killed by security forces.

    11) As is always the case when Martyrs are created the dwindling numbers of protesters were in response to the killings joined by large number of additional protesters who now came equipped with crude offensive weapons.

    12) The uneasy standoff in the square now became a full scale civil war with considerable violence leading to the all out fighting taking place with 100 protesters and 20 security forces killed.

    13) The President correctly concluded that his lieutenants were now turning against him and knowing that he would never be forgiven for all the deaths that had occurred owing to his unilateral decision to give two fingers to the EU left the country.

    Nope. Russia launched its invasion of East Ukraine in April. The Odessa event took place in May.

    Ukraine is doing just fine. The agreement that the President rejected has been signed into law. Nintey five percent of the area of mainland Ukraine remains at peace under Kyiv control. After a calamitous economic downturn caused by the events in 2014 it is now enjoying healthy economic growth. There are clear signs of low but visible reductions in corruption and transparency which is the real bugbear of Ukrainians.

    Ukraine is thanking to high heaven the actions of the protesters of Maidan. Those killed in Maidan have been elevated to the status of national heroes referred to as "the heavenly hundred".
     
  4. The Potato Mystic

    The Potato Mystic Legend Battle Royale Political Irish

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    Ukraine is a failed state ran by self destructive oligarch coupsters that wages a pogram war against significant segments of its own people whilst asset stripping its own economic wealth. All orchestrated on American coin in one of their color revolutions. Russia is to be commended for rescuing at least some of its nationals from this fate by returning Crimea to Russia and not falling for the US scorched earth strategies designed to weaken Russia and even Europe, the latter of whom has to try and prevent this failed state from collapsing entirely.
     
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  5. GodsDog

    GodsDog Member Political Irish

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    Yeuch....I feel dirty now! :tonguewink:

    You run interference for the very self serving grubby globalist scum I was referring to!
     
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  6. GodsDog

    GodsDog Member Political Irish

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    There was no russian invasion of Ukraine.
    There was a coup.
    Funded from outside for geopolitical reasons obvious to all but the most low IQ NYT/WaPo readers
    Nazi types were used to do the dirty work on the ground, firing on both police and protesters. BBC even did an expose on this.
    The current corrupt oligarchs in control aren't really any different to those they had before, except those were democratically elected.
    Corruption is rampant. Popularity of poroshenko and the rest of his corrupt government is even lower than it was for Yanukovich, but there will be no Maidan II funded and supported by the US to the tune of billions allowed this time
    Your love for ukranian cooch has skewed your objectivity off the scale on this matter.
    Take your head out of that thing for a bit and re-educate yourself. :D
     
  7. TheWexfordInn

    TheWexfordInn Respected Member Donator Battle Royale Political Irish

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    Thanks for providing me the stock analysis of Ukraine dictated by Moscow but Ill stick to the analysis of Ukrainian affairs thats coming from the people of Ukraine rather from that from their enemies abroad.

    Out of interest is it just Ukraine that you chose to accept foreign analysis of or do you also parrot the views of the Tory right wing in the home counties to form your views of the history and events of Ireland?
     
  8. OP
    Dublin 4

    Dublin 4 Legend Donator Battle Royale Political Irish Political Irish

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    Lads, please try & weave the OP into the Russia Ukraine stuff thanks.
     
  9. Ire-land

    Ire-land Legend Donator Battle Royale Political Irish

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    Ah, the plot thickens, or resolves, maybe... I didn't know that.
     
  10. OP
    Dublin 4

    Dublin 4 Legend Donator Battle Royale Political Irish Political Irish

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    Ireland should adopt new currency like South Sudan & Timor-Leste

    Ireland should join the UK by leaving the European Union according to a retired Irish ambassador to Canada

    Bassett argues that the Irish have a much deeper connection with Britons through "some form of political association for nearly 700 years" than with mainland Europeans.


    [​IMG]

    Ireland should adopt new currency like South Sudan & Timor-Leste
     
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  11. OP
    Dublin 4

    Dublin 4 Legend Donator Battle Royale Political Irish Political Irish

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  12. Liberal D4'er

    Liberal D4'er Member Political Irish

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    It's the classic slant that I've come to expect from the anti Europeans - that Ireland should re join with the UK. It's a sickness and a reality that will never come to be. And I suppose I'm now supposed to believe that I am in the minority in my own country and people who want to rejoin the UK outnumber the REAL Irish who don't want to have anything to do with Britain. Perhaps this site is the twilight zone where everything in the real world is magically flipped on its head for the perverted fantasies and desires of probably what is in reality a total of 2/3 posters who sign in under different names and espouse the same opinions to aggrandise themselves and their ego
     
  13. OP
    Dublin 4

    Dublin 4 Legend Donator Battle Royale Political Irish Political Irish

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    People mean joining together to leave the Rapefactory not joining the UK.

    By the by- your Rapefactory isn't "Europe"...
     
  14. Liberal D4'er

    Liberal D4'er Member Political Irish

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    Yeah and your role model country that we should be like South Sudan isn't a rape factory. You are thick
     
  15. OP
    Dublin 4

    Dublin 4 Legend Donator Battle Royale Political Irish Political Irish

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    No it isn't continuing to plant in Rapists like Germany & Sweden but thanks to babaric savages like you facilitating unpermitted plantations- British Children have been molested by Migrant & Generational Migrant Gangs in places like Rochdale & Rotherham.
     
  16. Liberal D4'er

    Liberal D4'er Member Political Irish

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    That wouldnt be people like me doing it that is the empire coming back to haunt England. Immigrants coming in to Ireland aren't plantations because they have no authority here. What countries like England France Spain Netherlands did were plantations because they took over and set up political centres and cities in those countries. You can't say what migrants in Ireland are doing is plantation because it lacks the military and political element. No more than you can say the millions of Ireland going to the states or Australia was a plantation. I think you're just playing on peoples fears to look like the parish stud.
     
  17. TheWexfordInn

    TheWexfordInn Respected Member Donator Battle Royale Political Irish

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    No its not, its to do with the UKs immigration policy. The Empire ended in 1947, the Muslim population in the UK thirteen years after the Empire ended in 1960 was still only 50,000. Today it is north of 3 million.

    It is immigration policy decided upon by the UK since that is responsible for the crisis. First big business opened the doors to cheap labour. Later Multiculturalists opened the door for their political reasons.
    In both cases it was political decisions made within the UK that was responsible, it was nothing to do with the Empire.

    If the Muslim population was still at the level it was at when the Empire ended there would be no issue.
     
  18. Liberal D4'er

    Liberal D4'er Member Political Irish

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    Yes it yes it is an empire but just a different kind of one based at home and based on the United States model. It is based around immigration but the blacks and Indians from the colonies were the first to move to England in the 60's so that was the influx from the old empire. True tony blairs immigration policy saw a massive upsurge in different ethnicities entering the UK from non commonwealth countries but that is what they are basing their new multi cultural empire around - people from every country in the world so they have access to those countries via intelligence agencies.

    You say big business opened the doors for cheap labour but I would put it to you, if the UK didn't have the supply of workers willing to do those jobs then the only way to keep the economy functioning effectively is to get that labour from elsewhere. Are you now going to turn around to me and say that there was no shortage of labour in those industries? Taking in migrants to plug a hole is the right thing to do for the country's economy. And with the amount of English that seek higher paying jobs in the City and services industry the only way to keep manufacturing going is to take in people who will do those jobs for those prices. It's not such a bad thing!
     
  19. OP
    Dublin 4

    Dublin 4 Legend Donator Battle Royale Political Irish Political Irish

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    Many British people opposed the Empire but barbaric savages like you enjoy overriding consent & enforcing Plantations that Nation State Infrastructures cannot support...

    Well done, you helped get us Brexy- thanks lol!
     
  20. Liberal D4'er

    Liberal D4'er Member Political Irish

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    And if you re read my post I argue it is not a plantation or empire because it lacks the political/military element. Think before you post