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Denmark set to ban the burka and niqab.

SwordOfStCatherine

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#1
Denmark is about to ban the burqa

I'm in two minds about this. In general I believe in live and let live however as Dublin 4 puts societies do need a certain amount of harmony in order to be able to function in a half way decent fashion and these things are definitely subversive of that. They are though also a political statement of Takferi Sunni Islam in a way that the hijab or even the khimar isn't- so they are useful for identifying if you are entering a dodgy area if you see a couple of people wearing them about. Two Islamic sects- the Sevener Shias/Ismaelis and Quranis- actually say that women should NOT wear head coverings unless it is a hat on a cold day or it is raining or again if you are somewhere where not wearing a head cover will bring a lot of hassle.
 

roc_

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#2
Your every single post is laced with ignorance, misinformation, and innuendo. Towards a single purpose.

Takfir is a concept in Islamist discourse as a whole, Sunni and Shia - denoting excommunication, as one Muslim declaring another Muslim as a non-believer.

The term Takfiris has recently been applied to ISIS because Zarqawi massively expanded the range of behavior that could make Muslims infidels. (To do this he focused on "the sin", as being the measure of apostasy. Remind you of someone, Ratio?)

This extremist denouncing of other Muslims and pronouncing their punishment, usually beheading, is the practive of 'Takfir'. It is an extremely fringe outlook among both Sunni and Shia.

And a "hijab" is any covering that secludes women from the view of men in public. The burka is a hijab or covering that stems from Arabic culture, and not Persian culture. That's all.

There are no dogmatic differences between the large groupings of Sunnis and Shi’a. They have the same core beliefs. The only difference is essentially political - Sunnis believe that no person after Muhammad is infallible, while the Shias believe in the infallibility of the twelve Imams who are descendants from the family of prophet Muhammad.

Within both groups there are nearly infinite sub-groupings and sects. Certainly not all Muslims, both Sunni and Shia, are "Islamist" (believing Islam has something to say beyond the personal sphere, and not being content with Islam being restricted strictly to private life). And within Islamism to scratch the surface of the current Sunni extremism alone, you might have Salafis, Jihadis, Al-Qaeda and Takfiri. There're not all one and the same. For example, not all Islamists are Salafis. And Jihadis are Salafis but not all Salafis are Jihadis.

Did you know for example that normally, Salafism prioritises personal purification and religious observance, and they believe anything that thwarts those goals—such as causing war or unrest that would disrupt lives and prayer and scholarship is forbidden?

Listen, the point is your every post is dedicated to demonising one side, and idealising and whitewashing the other side. By descending on tiny fringe cases and pathological malcontents and radicals who merely serve to rationalise your hatred of the west, western capitalism, Israel, and "sinful Jews" etc, etc, who you conveniently blame for all of the world's ills, you perpetuate lies. Your philosophy that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" serves nothing except these lies.

These tiny fringe dubious cases you descend upon (and usually distort with it) demonstrates nothing except the lengths you will go to to perpetuate your ideologically driven narrative to posit "the enemy".

Your contributions bring nothing to the table anymore. They only serve to embolden a grouping of the usual suspects you have coalesced with on here. Actually I perceive a kind of "sinful" concupiscence in your political association with these assortment of aggrieved souls you have found on here. But there is zero interest for me, so please stop badgering me, both you and Maxflinn, to "engage". There is nothing worthwhile to "engage" with on here. Thanks.
 
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Ire-land

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#3
Denmark is about to ban the burqa

I'm in two minds about this. In general I believe in live and let live however as Dublin 4 puts societies do need a certain amount of harmony in order to be able to function in a half way decent fashion and these things are definitely subversive of that. They are though also a political statement of Takferi Sunni Islam in a way that the hijab or even the khimar isn't- so they are useful for identifying if you are entering a dodgy area if you see a couple of people wearing them about. Two Islamic sects- the Sevener Shias/Ismaelis and Quranis- actually say that women should NOT wear head coverings unless it is a hat on a cold day or it is raining or again if you are somewhere where not wearing a head cover will bring a lot of hassle.
I honestly think banning these things, as well as their depraved torture of animals they’re going to eat, is the only way to stop them.

Make their lives in civilized countries unbearable so they’ll go back to the hellholes based on their belief system. Or they’ll throw a proper hissy fit and the libs will finally get to see what they’re really like.
 
OP
OP
SwordOfStCatherine

SwordOfStCatherine

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#4
Your every single post is laced with ignorance, misinformation, and innuendo. Towards a single purpose.

Takfir is a concept in Islamist discourse as a whole, Sunni and Shia - denoting excommunication, as one Muslim declaring another Muslim as a non-believer.

Listen, the point is your every post is dedicated to demonising one side, and idealising and whitewashing the other side. By descending on tiny fringe cases and pathological malcontents and radicals who merely serve to rationalise your hatred of the west, western capitalism, Israel, and "sinful Jews" etc, etc, who you conveniently blame for all of the world's ills, you perpetuate lies. Your philosophy that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" serves nothing except these lies.

Your contributions bring nothing to the table anymore. They only serve to embolden a grouping of the usual suspects you have coalesced with on here. Actually I perceive a kind of "sinful" concupiscence in your political association with these assortment of aggrieved souls you have found on here. But there is zero interest for me, so please stop badgering me, both you and Maxflinn, to "engage". There is nothing worthwhile to "engage" with on here. Thanks.
I'm aware of this however in contemporary political discourse it means something in particular. Even the biggest Shia sectarian is massively likely to acknowledge the great mass of Sunnis as fellow Muslims. I hate the West? Do I really? I actually I love the West and have had occasion to defend it even virulently against the attacks upon her by a Russian Orthodox girl who is studying here that I have befriended. St Francis, St Bernard, Bach and Beethoven mean so much to me, in a large part because they lived out to the full the great possibilities that slumber in every Western soul. If I was to hate the West I would hate myself. I do though hate western Capitalism but the principle reason for that is that it is destroying the West (you were not always a fan of Capitalism itself now where you?).

Look my sympathy with the Shia is principally for personal reasons; when I went over to England first and was a little lost gobshyte with next to none experience of life outside of Loyalist ghettos a Shia Muslima befriended me and helped me to adjust to life over there. Though we are still in touch one of the things I really miss about England is her kindness and her cooking. You complain about Neturei Karta for being narrow in their Religious thinking however I think their policy of being willing to engage with anyone is something that everyone should take note of, I believe where ever possible constructive dialogue is superior to enmity.

You are also a funny one to talk about demonization; when I first came across you putting forward the notion that Muhammad was demonically possessed (and David Icke was as well) and that most Muslims were demonized. You have also accused me of being willing to sell my own blood into sexual slavery if it could to wholesale murder of Jewish people.
 

The Potato Mystic

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#5
Well, a ban antagonises them on the one hand, permitting the ninja apparel ensures the distinctions that are at play here remain at its most explicit

I suppose a ban is a sign of a regime itself experiencing multicultural exasperation that they are prepared to anatgonise militant minorities such as the Muslims.

 

Tadhg Gaelach

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#6
Denmark is about to ban the burqa

I'm in two minds about this. In general I believe in live and let live however as Dublin 4 puts societies do need a certain amount of harmony in order to be able to function in a half way decent fashion and these things are definitely subversive of that. They are though also a political statement of Takferi Sunni Islam in a way that the hijab or even the khimar isn't- so they are useful for identifying if you are entering a dodgy area if you see a couple of people wearing them about. Two Islamic sects- the Sevener Shias/Ismaelis and Quranis- actually say that women should NOT wear head coverings unless it is a hat on a cold day or it is raining or again if you are somewhere where not wearing a head cover will bring a lot of hassle.

When in Rome and all that. I wouldn't expect European women to be allowed to go around in mini-skirts in Saudi Arabia, so it's only natural that Muslims should adopt European dress codes when in Europe.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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#7
I'm aware of this however in contemporary political discourse it means something in particular. Even the biggest Shia sectarian is massively likely to acknowledge the great mass of Sunnis as fellow Muslims. I hate the West? Do I really? I actually I love the West and have had occasion to defend it even virulently against the attacks upon her by a Russian Orthodox girl who is studying here that I have befriended. St Francis, St Bernard, Bach and Beethoven mean so much to me, in a large part because they lived out to the full the great possibilities that slumber in every Western soul. If I was to hate the West I would hate myself. I do though hate western Capitalism but the principle reason for that is that it is destroying the West (you were not always a fan of Capitalism itself now where you?).

Look my sympathy with the Shia is principally for personal reasons; when I went over to England first and was a little lost gobshyte with next to none experience of life outside of Loyalist ghettos a Shia Muslima befriended me and helped me to adjust to life over there. Though we are still in touch one of the things I really miss about England is her kindness and her cooking. You complain about Neturei Karta for being narrow in their Religious thinking however I think their policy of being willing to engage with anyone is something that everyone should take note of, I believe where ever possible constructive dialogue is superior to enmity.

You are also a funny one to talk about demonization; when I first came across you putting forward the notion that Muhammad was demonically possessed (and David Icke was as well) and that most Muslims were demonized. You have also accused me of being willing to sell my own blood into sexual slavery if it could to wholesale murder of Jewish people.

Isn't it strange how our Arch-Zionists now jump to the defense of the Arch-Sunnis? I think our sympathy with the Shia is well placed.
 
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SwordOfStCatherine

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#8
When in Rome and all that. I wouldn't expect European women to be allowed to go around in mini-skirts in Saudi Arabia, so it's only natural that Muslims should adopt European dress codes when in Europe.
In principle I agree however having lived in England that they can be a very good indicator that you are moving into dodgy territory. As much as the Swastika has become they are a political symbol and a very aggressive one at that (not least towards certain other Muslims)- they do allow you know where you stand, however the "Liberals" who are for the ban on the Swastika in Germany but against the ban on the niqab and burka I have contempt for.
 
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SwordOfStCatherine

SwordOfStCatherine

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#9
Isn't it strange how our Arch-Zionists now jump to the defense of the Arch-Sunnis? I think our sympathy with the Shia is well placed.
He has put forward the idea that the most cynical and corrupt wing of the Saudi Royal Family are a "progressive" force in the Middle East while of course on the other hand Hezbollah as nearly as bad as ISIS in his eyes. This is what comes from approaching each issue with the question "Is it good for the Jews?" which in case of L'Chaim and he always boils down to "Is this good for Zionism?" which whatever tricks they play in their minds is not the same thing. A US attack on Iran would be terrible for Jews globally and not least the large Jewish community in Iran, but try getting those boys to see that.

If roc_ is really concerned about anti-Semitism on Politics.ie he should pressure his mate L'Chaim into spelling Palestine with a capital "P" rather than getting his knickers in a twist about Rashers who is an incredibly sweet person with a strong sense of justice.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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#10
He has put forward the idea that the most cynical and corrupt wing of the Saudi Royal Family are a "progressive" force in the Middle East while of course on the other hand Hezbollah as nearly as bad as ISIS in his eyes. This is what comes from approaching each issue with the question "Is it good for the Jews?" which in case of L'Chaim and he always boils down to "Is this good for Zionism?" which whatever tricks they play in their minds is not the same thing. A US attack on Iran would be terrible for Jews globally and not least the large Jewish community in Iran, but try getting those boys to see that.

If roc_ is really concerned about anti-Semitism on Politics.ie he should pressure his mate L'Chaim into spelling Palestine with a capital "P" rather than getting his knickers in a twist about Rashers who is an incredibly sweet person with a strong sense of justice.

I'm quite happy that these Zionists are fully exposing themselves for what they really are.
 
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SwordOfStCatherine

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#11
I'm quite happy that these Zionists are fully exposing themselves for what they really are.
Why cannot people like Toland and Emily Davision over on Politics.ie see through L'Chaim? Or do you think it is a case that they do but don't want to call a spade a spade ? And if that is the case than why do they continue to slander Rashers as some actual almost murderous anti-Semite (Rashers isn't anti-Semitic by my definition of the word).
 
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SwordOfStCatherine

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#12
I'm quite happy that these Zionists are fully exposing themselves for what they really are.
Why cannot people like Toland and Emily Davision over on Politics.ie see through L'Chaim? Or do you think it is a case that they do but don't want to call a spade a spade ? And if that is the case than why do they continue to slander Rashers as some actual almost murderous anti-Semite (Rashers isn't anti-Semitic by my definition of the word).
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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#13
Why cannot people like Toland and Emily Davision over on Politics.ie see through L'Chaim? Or do you think it is a case that they do but don't want to call a spade a spade ? And if that is the case than why do they continue to slander Rashers as some actual almost murderous anti-Semite (Rashers isn't anti-Semitic by my definition of the word).

Both of them are stupid people. They know how to speak English to a level that gives the impression they have some intelligence - but really they don't.
 
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Myles O'Reilly

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#15
Your every single post is laced with ignorance, misinformation, and innuendo. Towards a single purpose. Takfir is a concept in Islamist discourse as a whole, Sunni and Shia - denoting excommunication, as one Muslim declaring another Muslim as a non-believer. The term Takfiris has recently been applied to ISIS because Zarqawi massively expanded the range of behavior that could make Muslims infidels. (To do this he focused on "the sin", as being the measure of apostasy. Remind you of someone, Ratio?) This extremist denouncing of other Muslims and pronouncing their punishment, usually beheading, is the practive of 'Takfir'. It is an extremely fringe outlook among both Sunni and Shia. And a "hijab" is any covering that secludes women from the view of men in public. The burka is a hijab or covering that stems from Arabic culture, and not Persian culture. That's all. There are no dogmatic differences between the large groupings of Sunnis and Shi’a. They have the same core beliefs. The only difference is essentially political - Sunnis believe that no person after Muhammad is infallible, while the Shias believe in the infallibility of the twelve Imams who are descendants from the family of prophet Muhammad. Within both groups there are nearly infinite sub-groupings and sects. Certainly not all Muslims, both Sunni and Shia, are "Islamist" (believing Islam has something to say beyond the personal sphere, and not being content with Islam being restricted strictly to private life). And within Islamism to scratch the surface of the current Sunni extremism alone, you might have Salafis, Jihadis, Al-Qaeda and Takfiri. There're not all one and the same. For example, not all Islamists are Salafis. And Jihadis are Salafis but not all Salafis are Jihadis. Did you know for example that normally, Salafism prioritises personal purification and religious observance, and they believe anything that thwarts those goals—such as causing war or unrest that would disrupt lives and prayer and scholarship is forbidden? Listen, the point is your every post is dedicated to demonising one side, and idealising and whitewashing the other side. By descending on tiny fringe cases and pathological malcontents and radicals who merely serve to rationalise your hatred of the west, western capitalism, Israel, and "sinful Jews" etc, etc, who you conveniently blame for all of the world's ills, you perpetuate lies. Your philosophy that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" serves nothing except these lies.These tiny fringe dubious cases you descend upon (and usually distort with it) demonstrates nothing except the lengths you will go to to perpetuate your ideologically driven narrative to posit "the enemy". Your contributions bring nothing to the table anymore. They only serve to embolden a grouping of the usual suspects you have coalesced with on here. Actually I perceive a kind of "sinful" concupiscence in your political association with these assortment of aggrieved souls you have found on here. But there is zero interest for me, so please stop badgering me, both you and Maxflinn, to "engage". There is nothing worthwhile to "engage" with on here. Thanks.
May I ask why do any of us in the west need to know any of this medieval rag-head shite?
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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#16
This is the main problem have with Democracy- there are far to many people in this world who are easily manipulated.

The reality is that democracy can only work in the kind of context that the Greeks developed it, i.e. in small city states where everyone knows each other and you stand to loose something if you do or say the wrong thing - maybe your life. And even then, it was only the property owning men who were allowed to vote. The idea of millions of people who don't know each other voting for people they don't know in not democracy - it's absolute nonsense.
 

maxflinn

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#17
Isn't it strange how our Arch-Zionists now jump to the defense of the Arch-Sunnis? I think our sympathy with the Shia is well placed.
Exactly! Everything the likes of roc_, Anglophile and Setantawatchl say on fora is designed to bolster the Israeli position, and of course with the mighty Shia Hezbollah and the Shia Iranians being the arch enemy of the Saudi-inspired Wahhabi terrorists of this world - the likes of whom Israel use as regime change proxies - and the arch enemies of Israel, they must try to demonize Shias.

It's so ridiculously transparent. I can't imagine they fool anyone bar the kind of sheep that populate P.ie. Their propaganda won't gain any traction here and roc_ knows it, hence his reluctance to post here.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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#18
Exactly! Everything the likes of roc_, Anglophile and Setantawatchl say on fora is designed to bolster the Israeli position, and of course with the mighty Shia Hezbollah and the Shia Iranians being the arch enemy of the Saudi-inspired Wahhabi terrorists of this world - the likes of whom Israel use as regime change proxies - and the arch enemies of Israel, they must try to demonize Shias.

It's so ridiculously transparent. I can't imagine they fool anyone bar the kind of sheep that populate P.ie. Their propaganda won't gain any traction here and roc_ knows it, hence his reluctance to post here.

Yes, it must be very difficult for them on a forum where the mods won't just ban anyone who demolishes their propaganda with facts.
 

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#19
Yes, it must be very difficult for them on a forum where the mods won't just ban anyone who demolishes their propaganda with facts.
Again, spot on.

I regularly did so on P.ie - as did you of course - and we're both banned.....

I spent hours one day on there looking back through old threads highlighting Israel's crimes and virtually none of those supporting these crimes on these threads had been banned, yet I would say upwards of 50% of those supporting the Palestinians had been permanently banned.

roc_ and the rest know they'll not be able to engineer a similar situation here so they stay in their safe zone.
 

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#20
Exactly! Everything the likes of roc_, Anglophile and Setantawatchl say on fora is designed to bolster the Israeli position, and of course with the mighty Shia Hezbollah and the Shia Iranians being the arch enemy of the Saudi-inspired Wahhabi terrorists of this world - the likes of whom Israel use as regime change proxies - and the arch enemies of Israel, they must try to demonize Shias.

It's so ridiculously transparent. I can't imagine they fool anyone bar the kind of sheep that populate P.ie. Their propaganda won't gain any traction here and roc_ knows it, hence his reluctance to post here.