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How much of a future does Catholicism in Ireland have?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by SwordOfStCatherine, Nov 16, 2017.

  1. SwordOfStCatherine

    SwordOfStCatherine Legend Political Irish

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    I have befriended a Russian Orthodox girl here and we have Theological arguments over the nature of the Atonement, Original Sin, the Immaculate Conception and Toll Houses versus Purgatory. The thing is that I have never heard a sermon preached on any of these issues in Ireland outside of SSPX chapels and main line "Latin Masses". Never once in the two Parishes we have been members of here. I know a lot of people consider the SSPX schismatic but I don't as such, though I do find them much to rigid and narrow thinking for me (that said the people who go to their chapels tend to have large families of beautifully behaved kids, to be well read and very serious about their Religion). The "Conservative" Catholics (Traditionalists/Integralists should never be confused with "Conservatives" in Catholicism) if they are middle class tend to see Catholicism almost as a political ideology and are focused on it's pragmatic sociological aspects to the total neglect almost of everything else. The working class and small farming "Conservative" Catholics are as people much better but they seem to easily fall into messy heterodox stuff such as the "House of Prayer", "Divine Mercy" (I know Pope John Paul II gave his blessing for this but that was out of his rabid Polish Nationalism- it had been previously condemned for extremely good reasons) and Medjugorje. Through little fault of their own a lot of them are at sea in many ways. A lot of Priests rather than seeking to help and improve such people seem a lot more keen in making sure that they do not become an embarrassment in front of "The ISIS Times" readers they want to impress. The problem is that a lot of these people suffer from the error of Clericalism and give false respect to Priests even though Hosea in particular but also other Prophets in the Old Testament railed in blood curdling terms against the corrupt Priesthood of their day. I do think the SSPX in Ireland has a future. The mainline Catholic Church doesn't seem to have one as things stand now.
     
  2. OP
    SwordOfStCatherine

    SwordOfStCatherine Legend Political Irish

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    Medjugorje is obviously fake because Our Lady never engaged in idle talk in Her earthly life. The idea that She would do so now is absurd.
     
  3. The Potato Mystic

    The Potato Mystic Legend Political Irish

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    I think Catholicism is buried under several ice sheets in a long globalist ice-age.

    However I do think a residue of Catholicism will persevere as a whiplash effect of an omnipresent anti-Catholicism which casts a towering shadow over this country and an anti-Catholicism that is the essence of twenty six county New Left liberalism in the same way that Auschwitz is the kerosine that fuels wider Western New Left liberalism. Catholicism and anti-Catholicism will fuel each other.
     
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  4. Tadhg Gaelach

    Tadhg Gaelach Legend Political Irish Donator

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    Catholicism will be strong for a long time among country women, who are more than enough of a congregation for any religion. But its days of real political power in Ireland are pretty much over.
     
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  5. Tadhg Ó Raghallaigh

    Tadhg Ó Raghallaigh Member Political Irish Donator

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    The Christian Brothers, the bishops, the lavender mafia and the EU did in the Catholic Church in Ireland.

    What plagues the Church in the West is that it stands for nothing. Were it not for Catholicism though, we'd all be eking out an existence in a Moslem hellhole or be forced to convert.

    Until there is a return to religiosity, until the Catholic and Orthodox churches breach the schism and the Holy Father once again declares that Islam is an existential threat and the devil's religion and must be defeated by hook or crook, nothing will halt the onslaught.

    The Church in Ireland will survive, I believe. After all Jesus said, "And behold I am with you all through the days that are coming, until the consummation of the world."
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
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  6. anderson

    anderson Respected Member Political Irish

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    It is on its knees and will continue to be as long as it is attacked by liberals and the government.

    Look at the referendum on Gay marriage, the church was called out of date, Fairy in the sky, or paedophile lovers. It will be the same attacks with the abortion referendum.

    Sadly the views of the church like the idea of a family unit are constantly being attacked by liberals and with the rise of Islam in Ireland it won't be long until Islam is the only dominant religion here.
     
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  7. OP
    SwordOfStCatherine

    SwordOfStCatherine Legend Political Irish

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    Most of the Bishops and Priests are though "The Irish Times" type "Liberal" though. They are desperate to be loved by the outside world especially the establishment and they put that before well helping people who want to be good Catholics become better ones.
     
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  8. OP
    SwordOfStCatherine

    SwordOfStCatherine Legend Political Irish

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    I'm not interested in the political power aspect though I hope the 8 th remains. I have a Carlist attitude to Opus Dei and always will.

    You are right that rural small farming and working class women are the spine of Irish Catholicism. However while you make easily St Augustine and St Maximus the Confessor meaningful to them but you cannot do so with Zappone's theology, and that isn't their fault, in fact that is to their merit. In my experience they are the least destructive and neurotic group in Ireland. The problem is that the institutional Church is indifferent to them at best. Than there is the fact of promoting effeminacy on the part of Priests which drives lads away from the Church. St Thomas Aquinas is vicious about effeminacy.
     
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  9. Heraclitus

    Heraclitus Member Political Irish

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    Catholicism is finished in Ireland.

    A part of me is inclined to say, "good riddance".
    But another part of me wonders: to what extent did Catholicism act as a sort of "nurse tree" for society?
     
  10. Heraclitus

    Heraclitus Member Political Irish

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    Whatever the utility of Catholicism, its claims to authority rest on a foundation of utter horse manure.

    Personally, I'd love to see some sort of Celtic Buddhism take hold. But not a new-age cringefest.
    I'd like to see something emerge that's well adapted to the Irish mentality, similar to how the Japanese made Buddhism their own.

    I know it sounds very pie in the sky, but I honestly believe it could be a good fit for our society.
     
  11. OP
    SwordOfStCatherine

    SwordOfStCatherine Legend Political Irish

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    Well it certainly looks like that at the moment which is strange given how Catholicism is gaining in terms of inner strength and to a lesser extent numbers both in England and France.

    What exactly do you mean by "nurse tree"? A major problem that I have is that the Ruling Elites didn't think up something to fill the void left by Catholicism such as maybe a Gaelized combination of Taoism and Confucianism, or maybe some type of adaption of Roman Stoicism.
     
  12. OP
    SwordOfStCatherine

    SwordOfStCatherine Legend Political Irish

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    I really hate Buddhism. It is just so essentially nihilistic.
     
  13. Heraclitus

    Heraclitus Member Political Irish

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    "The elites" have meddled enough.
    The role of the political classes should be more like that of a referee and less like a manager.
     
  14. Heraclitus

    Heraclitus Member Political Irish

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    I disagree. Consider the following quote from a zen monk

    "At the first level on the path he saw mountains as mountains and rivers as rivers.
    On the second level of the path he saw that mountains are not mountains and rivers are not rivers.
    And at a third level he saw once again mountains were mountains and rivers were rivers."

    Although everything is ultimately one and our categories mere conventions, they are nonetheless essential for our well being. This is what the quote is trying to convey. At the level of our day-to-day lives, we are the creators. We are responsible for navigating the slings and arrows of existence.

    Funnily enough, it was my reading into Buddhism a few years back that gave me greater insight into what Nietzsche was getting at.
     
  15. OP
    SwordOfStCatherine

    SwordOfStCatherine Legend Political Irish

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    I wasn't just thinking of the Political Ruling Elites, or even principally of them.

    In all societies outside of ones made up of very small independent groups you are going to get Ruling Elites.

    That is just the way things are.
     
  16. Heraclitus

    Heraclitus Member Political Irish

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    Missed this bit.

    What I meant is that Catholicism may have prevented worse ideas taking hold.
     
  17. dwayne

    dwayne Member Political Irish

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    I for one hopes that it will survive,i myself go regularly every Sunday with my Children just coming on 3 years now,and i have noticed that some of my neighbours and friends on my road and estate are starting to attend themselves with their Children and i think it is a beautiful thing,faith is a beautiful thing,my Mother is a devout Catholic she always has been,her idea of Holiday would be Knock-Lourdes-medjugrorje she cleans the Church every week and does door door collections etc etc,she unspires me with the strenght she gets from her faith,and i notice the affect it has had on me in making me calmer,one or two of the older Children sometimes have a face this is boring the younger one is great she just listens and they all walk out feeling good,it's not about some perverts that done the filthy stuff to a whole load of Children back in the day,i tell you one thing i have met many a Priest who were brilliant men,could have a banter etc etc even sit down for a pint with you int the local,but the most important reason to get your faith/Religion back is because when the people have no faith it opens up their morals to attack,as can clearly be seen today with what the LGBT Movement is pushing obviously funded by (((you know who using Cultural Marxism)))attacking the very fabric of Society for pushing for Gender neutral Toilets( i would break up any man who had a mental disorder and thought he was a Women going anywhere near my daughter in a changing room or toilet,trying to teach Children about gay sex from an early age when their minds are not even developed,same thing with a teacher if he teaches my Children any of that filth he will be sorry,
    A COUNTRY NEEDS ITS FAITH BECAUSE AT THE END DAY WITHOUT IT WE ARE VULNERABLE TO ALL SORTS OF ATTACK, LIKE THE ONES ABOVE AS WELL AS ALL OTHERS,THE BIBLE TEACHES YOU GREAT LIFE LESSONS AND MORALS,A COUNTRY NEEDS FAITH JUST LOOK AT POLAND HUNGARY RUSSIA ETC ETC ALL OF THESE COUNTRIES HAVE STRONG FAITH AND WITH THAT COMES NATIONAL PRIDE-SPIRITUAL PRIDE-MORALITY ETC ETC ETC
    BOTTOM LINE WHEN A COUNTRY LOOSES ITS SOUL
    THE DANGER OF LOSS OF FAITH IN GOD IS NOT THAT ONE WILL BELIEVE IN NOTHING.BUT RATHER THAT ONE WILL BELIEVE IN ANYTHING
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2017
  18. OP
    SwordOfStCatherine

    SwordOfStCatherine Legend Political Irish

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    Well I do think that a major reason that people like Mitsui2's family used to support Catholicism even though they didn't believe in it as they saw it as a brilliant weapon against the spread of Communism in Ireland. Once the Cold War ended that is when the demolition job on "Catholic Ireland" happened in earnest. The main reason though for the collapse of Catholicism in Ireland is down to utterly terrible Priests.
     
  19. Heraclitus

    Heraclitus Member Political Irish

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    Natural elites do indeed emerge in all societies. It can only be hoped that the elites that emerge in the future have better judgement.
     
  20. Heraclitus

    Heraclitus Member Political Irish

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    Possibly.

    I think you give Mitsui2 too much credit.
    He rarely posts anything worth reading and he fancies himself as a comedian, but he's harmless.

    As for terrible priests, perhaps that was the motivation for some abandoning Catholicism.
    But many did so for intellectual reasons.

    There's no escaping the fact that Catholicism makes a set of claims that must be believed by its members.