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In Defense of Israel

Kev

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#1
Came across a Video by Pat Condell,

Pat Condell is a Video Blogger in the UK who frequently voices his opinions on YouTube ans shares his views and feelings.

This particular video discusses Pats defense of Israel, I dont agree with Pat on this, I would like to discuss this view with other posters who are both for and against Israel.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHC8KC5cLs8
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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#2
Well, Pat is a bit of a silly old duffer, but like the broken clock he is sometimes right. This isn't one of those occasions, however. That a group of people can decide that they are going to invade and occupy another country on the basis that some of their ancestors may have lived there 2,000 years ago is ridiculous. The British have caused countless deaths by handing Palestine over to a political group - and that's what Zionists are, a political group. They are not a religious or a racial group and still less a national group - they are a political group with a mad antiquarian fantasy of turning time back 2,000 years. We Europeans may dream of having Constantinople and the Hagia Sophia back, but we are not going to invade Turkey and ethnically cleanse its population to make our dreams come true.
 

YoungStudent

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#4
Well, Pat is a bit of a silly old duffer, but like the broken clock he is sometimes right. This isn't one of those occasions, however. That a group of people can decide that they are going to invade and occupy another country on the basis that some of their ancestors may have lived there 2,000 years ago is ridiculous. The British have caused countless deaths by handing Palestine over to a political group - and that's what Zionists are, a political group. They are not a religious or a racial group and still less a national group - they are a political group with a mad antiquarian fantasy of turning time back 2,000 years. We Europeans may dream of having Constantinople and the Hagia Sophia back, but we are not going to invade Turkey and ethnically cleanse its population to make our dreams come true.

Say what you want, but he is quite correct on the Israel subject.

How can a country invade their own country, did Ireland invade Great Britain when they seized control from the British Government?
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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#5
Say what you want, but he is quite correct on the Israel subject.

How can a country invade their own country, did Ireland invade Great Britain when they seized control from the British Government?

What the hell are you talking about? Zionists invading Palestine is like the Irish invading Switzerland - on the basis that the Celts lived there 2,000 years ago.
 

SwordOfStCatherine

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#6
What the hell are you talking about? Zionists invading Palestine is like the Irish invading Switzerland - on the basis that the Celts lived there 2,000 years ago.
There is also the question of whether current day Jews are related by blood to the Ancient Hebrews. Whatever David Duke says in mine and a lot of other minds that question is far from settled as regards Ashkenazi Jewry.
 

The Potato Mystic

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#8
"Israel" are a bunch of planters summarily dumped on the region by the Brits and armed by American largesse. No different from the Ulster Plantation, the Spanish conquering South America, the Indians getting a hiding in North America. The intruders could be anyone but people's brain's shut down and they fall into some mystical neverneverland because they are Jews for some reason. The only cogent morality "Israel" has is a 'might is right' philosophy but that is basically the philosophy of the thief.

Pat Condell isn't a serious person, he belongs in the same category as that Geller charlatan. Any jackass can oppose immigration or play the atheist card. The whys and wheres of mass-immigration, how to make Europe love itself again and how to counter neo-liberal globalism, these jokers have nothing of interest to say about that.
 
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Tadhg Gaelach

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#9
There is also the question of whether current day Jews are related by blood to the Ancient Hebrews. Whatever David Duke says in mine and a lot of other minds that question is far from settled as regards Ashkenazi Jewry.
There's no doubt that a lot of non-Semitic people converted to Judaism over a period of 2,000 years or so. Possibly in the millions. It certainly is laughable that these people would be claiming they have a "right of return" to Palestine, including the right to ethnically cleanse 100% Semitic people from that land, i.e. the Palestinians. This is the real anti-Semitism.
 

SwordOfStCatherine

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#10
Pat Condell isn't a serious person, he belongs in the same category as that Geller charlatan. Any jackass can oppose immigration or play the atheist card. The whys and wheres of mass-immigration, how to make Europe love itself again and how to counter neo-liberal globalism, these jokers have nothing of interest to say about that.
Something Jonathan Bowden said that has always stayed with me is that Islam could never conquer Europe unless we completely roll over and let them due to the fact that it is far to rigid for the European mind ever to accept en masse. There are of course certain European types (mostly women actually) who are drawn to Islam but they are few and far between (actually all the indigenous Brits that I know of who converted to Islam started out as BNP members or supporters outside of one who was a hardcore Marxist-Leninist; you wont find fluffy liberals getting drawn into it). The disintegrating influences pouring over upon us from the United States are far more insidious. Also Pat Condell from the little I have seen of his rantings is always going on about what he is against, never what he is for (I dont count being for negative freedoms as something someone is substantially for).
 

The Potato Mystic

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#11
Something Jonathan Bowden said that has always stayed with me is that Islam could never conquer Europe unless we completely roll over and let them due to the fact that it is far to rigid for the European mind ever to accept en masse. There are of course certain European types (mostly women actually) who are drawn to Islam but they are few and far between (actually all the indigenous Brits that I know of who converted to Islam started out as BNP members or supporters outside of one who was a hardcore Marxist-Leninist; you wont find fluffy liberals getting drawn into it). The disintegrating influences pouring over upon us from the United States are far more insidious. Also Pat Condell from the little I have seen of his rantings is always going on about what he is against, never what he is for (I dont count being for negative freedoms as something someone is substantially for).
We're probably at the high watermark of Islamic influence in the West in terms of high politics and I suppose there's something to be said that they punch above their weight given the breath-taking largesse of Arab autocracies and the relative sophistication of places like Qatar to influence policy worldwide. We've got middle-level types in England like Warsi and Kahn ruling islands of power on the back of influence won by Qatari/Saud funny money.

But even on those terms, a guy like Kahn can only really project a kind of soft-Islamism, for example, when it runs in parallel with certain feminist demands against the objectification of women. i.e the controversy over the bikini adverts.

For the rest, Kahn's Islamism is dissipated by a resolutely secular mass bureaucracy or entertained by that mass bureaucracy as a weapon to morally weaken majoritarian culture. It's a seismic disappointment or jadedness with that majoritarian culture that peels off a small number of Westerners to become militants.

At a local level, we will find a multiplication of pockets of Islamic populations going into the future. But these will be bunkers of anxiety and disorientation under the Golden Arches and will never have the organisational stuffing nor the confidence to alter the McWorld society in any meaningful way. So visions of Europe being an embroidered Caliphate of the old school may make for good rhetoric but they are way off in real terms. Muslims aren't players, it's globalism that's calling the shots with an Islamism disorientated by globalism as its instrument. And if some people are in some other space with this, then I think they are just not in the game.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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#12
We're probably at the high watermark of Islamic influence in the West in terms of high politics and I suppose there's something to be said that they punch above their weight given the breath-taking largesse of Arab autocracies and the relative sophistication of places like Qatar to influence policy worldwide. We've got middle-level types in England like Warsi and Kahn ruling islands of power on the back of influence won by Qatari/Saud funny money.

But even on those terms, a guy like Kahn can only really project a kind of soft-Islamism, for example, when it runs in parallel with certain feminist demands against the objectification of women. i.e the controversy over the bikini adverts.

For the rest, Kahn's Islamism is dissipated by a resolutely secular mass bureaucracy or entertained by that mass bureaucracy as a weapon to morally weaken majoritarian culture. It's a seismic disappointment or jadedness with that majoritarian culture that peels off a small number of Westerners to become militants.

At a local level, we will find a multiplication of pockets of Islamic populations going into the future. But these will be bunkers of anxiety and disorientation under the Golden Arches and will never have the organisational stuffing nor the confidence to alter the McWorld society in any meaningful way. So visions of Europe being an embroidered Caliphate of the old school may make for good rhetoric but they are way off in real terms. Muslims aren't players, it's globalism that's calling the shots with an Islamism disorientated by globalism as its instrument. And if some people are in some other space with this, then I think they are just not in the game.

I agree that Muslims aren't the real players here - they are merely being used as weapons by the Ziomatrix. One the one side we have the Ziomatrix agenda to destroy Europe as ethnically and culturally European. On the other you have the mindless gombeen bourgeois classes who just want cheap labour and high rents and have no ideological agenda at all. Caught between are the Muslims and the Native Europeans.

But, I would doubt that we have seen the high water mark of Islamic influence. The demographic question is key here. Europeans continue to fail to replace themselves, and they are being replaced by Muslim children.
 

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#13
Fortunately, Jews have a state set up as a refuge, in case things go south with the neo Nazis, Muslim nut jobs and Leftist anti Semites.

Good thing no one's trying to abolish or destroy it......:rolleyes:
 

maxflinn

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#14
Fortunately, Jews have a state set up as a refuge, in case things go south with the neo Nazis, Muslim nut jobs and Leftist anti Semites.

Good thing no one's trying to abolish or destroy it......:rolleyes:
The only thing the Jews of Israel need protection from is international law and sanctions, and powerful Zionists spend hundreds of millions every year bribing U.S. politicians who ensure they get it, along with the regime change wars Israel's leaders want.

But the people of the U.S. are waking up, and in the not-too-distant-future things will change, and Israel won't have the protection it enjoys anymore. Then its crime spree will have to stop.
 
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Anglophile

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#15
The only thing the Jews of Israel need protection from is international law and sanctions, and powerful Zionists spend hundreds of millions every year bribing U.S. politicians who ensure they get it, along with the regime change wars Israel's leaders want.

But the people of the U.S. are waking up, and in the not-too-distant-future things will change, and Israel won't have the protection it enjoys anymore. Then its crime spree will have to stop.

Yeah, those rich Jews versus the penniless Arab world (Qatar, Saudi, UAE etc.)......:smiley:
 

kalipa44

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#16
Yeah, those rich Jews versus the penniless Arab world (Qatar, Saudi, UAE etc.)......:smiley:

You know well that Israel is bestest fwends with Saudi Arabia who is trying to destroy Qatar. Israel has nothing to fear and has the arms and equiptment to well protect herself. In fact she is the belligerent entity in that part of the world and further afield
 

Anglophile

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#17
You know well that Israel is bestest fwends with Saudi Arabia who is trying to destroy Qatar. Israel has nothing to fear and has the arms and equiptment to well protect herself. In fact she is the belligerent entity in that part of the world and further afield
Not much happening at the moment.

The action seems to be elsewhere.

How is she 'belligerent' right now?

Some proof, and reliable links please this time......
 

kalipa44

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#18
Not much happening at the moment.

The action seems to be elsewhere.

How is she 'belligerent' right now?

Some proof, and reliable links please this time......
She is still bombing Syria. She is still interfering in politics of other countries. She is dispossessing and killing Palestinians etc, etc, etc
 

Anglophile

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#19
She is still bombing Syria. She is still interfering in politics of other countries. She is dispossessing and killing Palestinians etc, etc, etc
Vague, broadstroke allegations without any proof or links.

And certainly no context - like their 'bombing in Syria'.

Just the usual slurs.

Thought so.
 

El Chaval.

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#20
Vague, broadstroke allegations without any proof or links.

And certainly no context - like their 'bombing in Syria'.

Just the usual slurs.

Thought so.
Israel have intervened militarily in the Syrian civil war over 40 times.
Each time to give a leg up to Islamic fundamentalists.

The idea that they have a right to their own State based on historical and cultural links in that area is nonsense as the Chrisitians and muslims also have historical and cultural links to the same land.
How about the Christians of the world moved en en masse to Israel, made a claim to its religious significance and took the jews land.
How would that be accepted?