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Jordan Peterson pulled up on Solzhenitsyn's views on the Jewish Question.

Wnoa

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#2
Haven't listened to this yet but in fairness if he goes down this road he's finished.
What do people realistically expect him to do?
 

Wnoa

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#5
I hear you but I think he's between a rock and a hard place on this issue.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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#7
I've been listening to the You Tube reading of 200 Years Together that Young Dan posted and I must say it's very fair. It doesn't set out to demonized Jews, and the Jewish chroniclers are extensively quoted. The fact is that the Jews entered Russia as an alien presence. They didn't want to assimilate, and, for the most part, the Russians preferred to keep them at one remove. The Jews got themselves into a lot of trouble by playing the games of the corrupt landowners, who used to lease out taverns etc. to the Jews - and then complain that the Jews were causing drunkenness and debt among the peasantry. To be fair, Solzhenitsyn makes it clear that the corrupt aristocrats and landowners were the real source of this villainy.
 
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#9
Peterson is a hold-over from the 1980s really. His view of Solzhenitsyn comes from when the guy was chic during the Cold War.

Individualism of Peterson's sort means you're open to being picked off by any hostile collective that happens by. It's an equilibrium in actuality; people who champion individualism and decry collectiveness are quite dangerous really.
 
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#10
I think he picked up on the audience and that they were non receptive to whatever answer he gave them. I don't think it was the right forum to give an answer in. They may have been time limitations or it may have been the last question of the evening. Questions like that should be teased out in a setting like the "Oxford Union debates". I suppose there are two questions here, was Solzhenitsyn right academically in what he wrote? and does he have the freedom to write it? J.P. would defend free speech, but might run the risk of people thinking that criticism of Jews might be construed as anti Semitism. A no win situation.
 
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#12
:smash2::squezer:

His reaction was pathetic, I knew it was going to happen. My better half is always accusing me of over estimating people's intelligence but Jordan Peterson made the mistake are really under estimating it.

How did you expect him to reply?

That the number of Jews in the Bolshevik movement was vastly disproportionate to their numbers in the population is beyond dispute.
They dominated Bolshevism, and continued to play an outsized role in the Soviet Union -- even after the Stalinist purges.

But were they motivated by hatred, as Solzhenitsyn seems to imply? Perhaps a few were.
And in some cases, these may even have been legitimate grievances.

However, it needs to be borne in mind that ideological movements tend to attract individuals in the higher IQ range.
This is even more true for the elites of such groups.
And what population has the highest average IQ of any ethnicity? Ashkenazi Jews.

It's also important to note that the way IQ is distributed (Normal distribution), groups with even slightly higher than average IQs will have several times the number of individuals in the 130+ range.
So all things considered, the high percentage of Jewish Bolsheviks isn't that surprising.

Solzhenitsyn went beyond the facts and made a broad sweeping character judgement, treating Jews as a monolithic group.
But he didn't understand the implications of the bell curve, so I wouldn't hold it against him.
As for Peterson, he probably should've given a more detailed response, but, similarly, I wouldn't hold it against him


#19 Why is the IQ of Ashkenazi Jews so High? - twenty possible explanations

What does it mean that Ashkenazim have a high IQ, in terms of producing “geniuses”? With their population so small - a mere 0.25 of the world total - does it make any serious difference? The answer is YES. A “bell curve” is used to illustrate IQ percentile in a specific group – in a “general population” where IQ average is 100 the curve assumes these proportions:
less than 70 IQ - 2.5%
70-85 IQ - 12.5%
86-100 IQ - 35%
101-115 IQ – 35%
116-130 IQ – 12.5%
greater than 130 IQ – 2.5%
Applying the same bell curve for Ashkenazim, but with a 17-point upward lift in median IQ (using the From Chance To Choice digit) produces the IQ upgrade below:
less than 87 IQ – 2.5%
88-102 IQ – 12.5%
103-117 IQ – 35%
118-132 IQ – 35%
133-148 IQ – 12.5%
greater than 148 IQ – 2.5%
This shifting upward of the bell curve by more than a standard deviation (15 points) means that more than five times as many Ashkenazim are eligible for Mensa (minimum 130 IQ) and more than five times as many have the average IQ of an Ivy League graduate.
 
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maxflinn

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#14
He chickened out there IMO.

Yes, one can say that a collective higher IQ is a factor in terms of the relative success of world Jewry. A strong belief in a good education is also obviously a factor, but so too is the historical manipulation and bribery of governments by powerful Jews and in recent times Israel's various lobbies and lackeys, and the fact that there exists organisations dedicated to sniffing out all and any opposition to the plans and goals of Israel and political Zionism and crippling said opponents political careers by way of smearing with the anti-Semite slur.

I would have liked to see Peterson mention this too.
 
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#15
I don't believe in "Elders of the Protocols of Zion" type Jewish conspiracies. I'm probably outside of Dan the only person on this forum who has actually got to know Jews on a real life basis, in general I like them, however for good or for bad they are incredibly tribal and more so than Ulster Scots who are the most tribal indigenous group on these Isles outside of Travellers. Plus in terms of Jewish Liberalism there is often an incredible lack of consistency on this issue- roc_ is a prime example of this. Jews who are genuinely "Liberal" incline towards lula stuff such as Trotskyism or Anarchism. One thing I will say is that all the anti-Semites I have known tended to have either strong typically Jewish vices or virtues or a combination of both. Farrakhan is a prime example of this- and I actually find him over all an impressive figure.
 
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#16
He chickened out there IMO.

Yes, one can say that a collective higher IQ is a factor in terms of the relative success of world Jewry. A strong belief in a good education is also obviously a factor, but so too is the historical manipulation and bribery of governments by powerful Jews and in recent times Israel's various lobbies and lackeys, and the fact that there exists organisations dedicated to sniffing out all and any opposition to the plans and goals of Israel and political Zionism and crippling said opponents political careers by way of smearing with the anti-Semite slur.

I would have liked to see Peterson mention this too.
Ingroup preference also plays a role.
I think mentioning this would've completed his answer.

But ingroup preference is of little use if you lack the raw material of intelligence.
If you want to give your co-ethnics a leg up, you need to be in a position to do so in the first place.

Or to put it another way, homeless drug addicts can scratch each other's backs till the cows come home.
But they're unlikely to rise to the Board room or Parliament building any time soon.
 
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#17
I expected that reaction in the same way that I expect water to be wet when it falls from the sky. If Peterson had some sort of trangessive response over the ultimate taboo his career would've been stone dead in Canada with only scraps to be had in the states.

But aside from that Peterson is very wishy-washy. He sets up a free speech conference but then disinvites one of the panel because she had a chat some alt-righters. That's just nonsense.
 
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#18
I don't believe in "Elders of the Protocols of Zion" type Jewish conspiracies. I'm probably outside of Dan the only person on this forum who has actually got to know Jews on a real life basis, in general I like them, however for good or for bad they are incredibly tribal and more so than Ulster Scots who are the most tribal indigenous group on these Isles outside of Travellers. Plus in terms of Jewish Liberalism there is often an incredible lack of consistency on this issue- roc_ is a prime example of this. Jews who are genuinely "Liberal" incline towards lula stuff such as Trotskyism or Anarchism. One thing I will say is that all the anti-Semites I have known tended to have either strong typically Jewish vices or virtues or a combination of both. Farrakhan is a prime example of this- and I actually find him over all an impressive figure.
They certainly are tribal.
This can become a problem when Jewish group interest conflicts with that of the host population.
The Middle East policy of the United States is a good example of this.

But overall, Individuals of Jewish extraction have been an asset to the West.
 
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#20
Or to put it another way, homeless drug addicts can scratch each other's backs till the cows come home.
But they're unlikely to rise to the Board room or Parliament building any time soon.
They don't though- lumpens back stab and inform on each almost as a hobby. I grew up on estate which had a fair share of lumpens and so I understand their mentality.