Discussion in 'Political Philosophy' started by Tadhg Gaelach, Jul 18, 2017.
Far be it from me to ever do such a thing....
Glad to hear that Tee.
Keep shouting at the moon.
Makes a huge difference.
mmm very interesting.. u refer to communism are a 'true conservative force'.
when a Country has a moral compass, e.g. christian core culture, u have that force from within, cultural unity.
maybe Capitalism 'under globalism' is against the natural order..,
but being rewarded for hard work encourages people to be motivated, & reach their potential, it makes them happy to have goals for the future.
it doesn't have to turn into mega-mergers, where corporations have so much power /monopoly.
but with Communism yr potential is crushed 'for the common good',
the 'individual potential' of each, & of your Country is undermined. (& u still have masters....!).
Not really the 'free' republic that was imagined..? imo.
Ahh... NatBol. I didn't know that was a thing.
I don't agree. Many scientists and artists and workers worked very hard in the USSR and achieved magnificent success - such as putting the first man in space, housing tens of millions of people, providing a high level of health service and education. You shouldn't imagine that if society is not going to hand the keys to the kitty over to you because you "invent" something like Facebook, that human potential is crushed.
Yes but the reality is that country's do not exist in isolation no matter how hard the country's leaders try to make it that way. Even if a country is self sufficient which is unlikely to be the case exchanges and trade still can and do happen. It is under these circumstances that the country's true wealth is deciphered. How much goods and services from one country are valued by another country deciphers the exchange rate between those two currencies (although nowadays it is how much the currency itself is valued deciphers the exchange rate). It is a matter of need and even a country with every type of resource in it they could want is still dependent on foreign oil the USA. So it has to engage with the world and trade. The same goes for Russia and food. Every country has a need from abroad to help it compete throughout the ages. Having a good health system and flourishing arts scene is not sufficient to go into isolation and cutting off a populace from the rest of the world stifles this competition. They don't hand over the keys because they end up wanting to enrich themselves at the expense of the peoples who end up with no social mobility, no professional mobility and nothing on the store shelves when wanting to buy the basics for survival. These "leaders" are willing to have the people they serve die of starvation rather than doing the dieing themselves.
The USSR never lived in isolation. It was always very internationalist. And the starvation came to Russia when Capitalism was imposed on it in the 1990s. There was a de facto famine that cost at least a million lives under the Yeltsin régime.
?? many artists etc were hounded by the establishment in the USSR..... for daring to express their 'individuality', & not conforming, some had to escape or 'defect'.
but agree some succeeded, eg dancers, + science, health, education, but they had masters, hoarding the wealth for themselves, & running the show.
This is a long conversation.. but i take what u said on board..
& facebook is turning out to be a spying/collection of data/ banking, operation. (imo), & not to be trusted.
I don't like to cite Wikipedia but...
"Droughts and famines in Russia and the Soviet Union tended to occur fairly regularly, with famine occurring every 10–13 years and droughts every five to seven years. "
To clarify, the article says that pre Soviet era, famines did happen but they were far more frequent under Soviet rule.
Academics have tried to quantify the number of dead from starvation due to central planning.
The Black Book of Communism perhaps being the most accepted.
Perhaps the Soviets weren't doing it right and these mistakes wouldn't happen under another socialist regime but Solzhenitsyn is quoted as saying...
"You must understand, the leading Bolsheviks who took over Russia were not Russians. They hated Russians. They hated Christians. Driven by ethnic hatred they tortured and slaughtered millions of Russians without a shred of human remorse. It cannot be overstated. Bolshevism committed the greatest human slaughter of all time. The fact that most of the world is ignorant and uncaring about this enormous crime is proof that the global media is in the hands of the perpetrators."
The "Black Book of Communism" is a load of tripe put together by inbred cretins. Solzhenitsyn was a fine writer of fiction, but he had very little concept of reality. Even his friends in the West turned their backs on him because of his tinfoil hat ideas - and refused to even publish a book that he had spent decades of work on.
The truth is that Jews did join the Communist Party out of hatred of the Christian Tsars, and they did abuse their positions in the Communist Party to take revenge on the Christians for perceived Tsarist injustices against their tribe. But to suggest that the Jews were anything more than a tiny minority of the membership of the CP is just daft.
And let's not forget that Comrade Stalin was taking steps to deal with these Jewish abusers when he died - or was murdered.
Famine was common in Soviet Russia. A large majority of the ruling Bolsheviks were not ethnically Russian and perhaps divorced from the suffering their policies meant to the people.
The centrally planned economy resulted in gross under production and a mismatch between people's needs and what was produced and distributed.
Famine and Starvation were common in Soviet Russia.
Disregarding sources you don't like or that don't fit your ideological bias is at best lazy.
I'm surprised the Wikipedia page is unacceptable or too 'tinfoil hat' for you.
I didn't include the link. Your reply makes more sense now.
Droughts and famines in Russia and the Soviet Union - Wikipedia
Your wholly reactionary views have nothing in common with Marxism, you clearly know nothing about Lenin and your "globalist gaystapo" conspiracy theory is completely lumpenproletarian.
It's been estimated there were 5 to 6 milion unexplained deaths during the capitalist Yeltsin era in Russia. And that does not count deaths in other countries of the fformer USSR.
Who has estimated this? A link would be helpful if it could explain how this figure was produced.
By the way Google tells me that 2 million people die of natural causes in the US every year, apparently Cancer and Heart Failure together account for 1 million US deaths a year.
A back of the fag packet calculation tells me that with something like half the population of the US that something like 8 million people would have been expected to die of natural causes in Russia in the 8 years Yeltsin was in power.
92% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
Much less common than before 1917. And once the USSR had recovered from WW2, famine and starvation was ended in the Soviet Union. It only returned under Capitalism in the 1990s.
99.99% of your statistics anyway.