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Xmas Movies.

Tadhg Ó Raghallaigh

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#23
I thought something like this was more your thing for a Christmas Day film.
Compared to the book, the movie is underwhelming. Some of the acting is clunky and affected, and it seems almost hagiographical in many parts. However, the opening scene, during which the police set upon and beat the snot out of anti-Shah protesters and Benno Ohnesorg is subsequently shot dead, is excellent and pretty damn intense. It gives a harrowing glimpse into the birth of German terrorism.

If the actress in the screen shot above, Alexandra Maria Lara, had more than 10 minutes' work in the film, I'd have given it five stars. She's smokin' hot.
 

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#24
Compared to the book, the movie is underwhelming. Some of the acting is clunky and affected, and it seems almost hagiographical in many parts. However, the opening scene, during which the police set upon and beat the snot out of anti-Shah protesters and Benno Ohnesorg is subsequently shot dead, is excellent and pretty damn intense. It gives a harrowing glimpse into the birth of German terrorism.

If the actress in the screen shot above, Alexandra Maria Lara, had more than 10 minutes' work in the film, I'd have given it five stars. She's smokin' hot.

Have you seen Fassbinder's Deutschland Im Herbst?
 

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#25
I see it's on You Tube - no subtitles, but you don't need them. I think the film gives a terrific sense of the time - there isn't any film about the Troubles in Ireland that's as honest and effective.

 

Tadhg Ó Raghallaigh

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#26
Have you seen Fassbinder's Deutschland Im Herbst?
I have. Have you, Tadhg? I'm not a big fan of his, but it is in many respects a more jaundiced look at the German Autumn. I wish someone would bankroll a film on the 2nd and 3rd generations of the R.A.F. They were much more cunning and ruthless and extremely sophisticated, so much so that increasingly more extremism experts suspects that the B.N.D. and the C.I.A. were running many of the operations, e.g. the Alfred Herrhausen assassination.

It's a fascinating topic and the parallels between the German reaction to the R.A.F. and that of the British/Irish to the I.R.A. are stark.
 

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#28
I have. Have you, Tadhg? I'm not a big fan of his, but it is in many respects a more jaundiced look at the German Autumn. I wish someone would bankroll a film on the 2nd and 3rd generations of the R.A.F. They were much more cunning and ruthless and extremely sophisticated, so much so that increasingly more extremism experts suspects that the B.N.D. and the C.I.A. were running many of the operations, e.g. the Alfred Herrhausen assassination.

It's a fascinating topic and the parallels between the German reaction to the R.A.F. and that of the British/Irish to the I.R.A. are stark.
Yes, I've seen all of Fassbinder's films - I'm a big fan. I don't think anyone else would have been allowed to make that film either - except that Fassbinder was such a phenomenon and the West Germans didn't know how to say no to him (he would have made it himself anyway on a shoestring budget if they had refused). To tell the truth, Germany hasn't produced a film maker of genius since - and they knew at the time that would be the case. Ireland has never produced a film director of genius.
 

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#29
Compared to the book, the movie is underwhelming. Some of the acting is clunky and affected, and it seems almost hagiographical in many parts. However, the opening scene, during which the police set upon and beat the snot out of anti-Shah protesters and Benno Ohnesorg is subsequently shot dead, is excellent and pretty damn intense. It gives a harrowing glimpse into the birth of German terrorism.

If the actress in the screen shot above, Alexandra Maria Lara, had more than 10 minutes' work in the film, I'd have given it five stars. She's smokin' hot.
Did not know there was a book on them. They were relatively unorganised as a group it seems. They lost almost as many members as they killed.
 

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#30
Did not know there was a book on them. They were relatively unorganised as a group it seems. They lost almost as many members as they killed.

It's a bit off topic, but I regard then as undisciplined people. If they had been serious they would have put themselves under the command of the DDR authorities.
 

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#31
Did not know there was a book on them.
I'm not sure it's been translated into English, but Stephen Aust, a prominent journalist, penned it. He got a bunch of flak for refusing to divulge many of his sources, but the book is chock full of detail and is well-written.

They were relatively unorganised as a group it seems. They lost almost as many members as they killed.
Whereas the Baader-Meinhof Group/R.A.F. 1st generation were relatively disorganized, the second and third generations seemed to epitomize sophistication. Baader, Meinhof and Ensslin played weekend warriors and fucked around at P.F.L.P./Black September camps in Jordan and got half-assed training, but the second and third generations were trained by the East German MfS and knew their shit, or so the official line goes. At one time, they had more than 10,000 sympathizers who were willing to aid and abet them before, during and after they perpetrated attacks, which rivaled those of the I.R.A., if not in frequency.

In fact, quite a few of the third generation are still on the loose, even though the R.A.F. was "officially" put out to pasture in '98.
 

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#32
I'm not sure it's been translated into English, but Stephen Aust, a prominent journalist, penned it. He got a bunch of flak for refusing to divulge many of his sources, but the book is chock full of detail and is well-written.



Whereas the Baader-Meinhof Group/R.A.F. 1st generation were relatively disorganized, the second and third generations seemed to epitomize sophistication. Baader, Meinhof and Ensslin played weekend warriors and fucked around at P.F.L.P./Black September camps in Jordan and got half-assed training, but the second and third generations were trained by the East German MfS and knew their shit, or so the official line goes. At one time, they had more than 10,000 sympathizers who were willing to aid and abet them before, during and after they perpetrated attacks, which rivaled those of the I.R.A., if not in frequency.

In fact, quite a few of the third generation are still on the loose, even though the R.A.F. was "officially" put out to pasture in '98.

I was in Mostar in Bosnia a couple of years ago, and there's RAF graffiti all over the place. Some PFLP slogans also.
 

Tadhg Ó Raghallaigh

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#33
It's a bit off topic, but I regard then as undisciplined people. If they had been serious they would have put themselves under the command of the DDR authorities.
Baader, Meinhof and Ensslin hid out in the G.D.R. for a time, under the watchful eyes of the Stasi, before they headed to the Middle East. That's the extent of their contact with the East Germans, as far as I know. When many of the second generation went underground and bugged out to East Germany, they were given completely new identities and lives as run-of-the-mill citizens. That is until the Wall fell eight years later, and they all were nabbed.
 

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#36
Yes, I've seen all of Fassbinder's films - I'm a big fan. I don't think anyone else would have been allowed to make that film either - except that Fassbinder was such a phenomenon and the West Germans didn't know how to say no to him (he would have made it himself anyway on a shoestring budget if they had refused). To tell the truth, Germany hasn't produced a film maker of genius since - and they knew at the time that would be the case. Ireland has never produced a film director of genius.
I had a German film class way back when and there was a disproportionate amount of Fassbinder films we were made to watch. Maybe that's why I'm somewhat averse. I'm a fan of some Herzog films, especially when he collaborated with Klaus Kinski. I also like Josef Vilsmaier, the director of Stalingrad.
 

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#37
I'm not sure it's been translated into English, but Stephen Aust, a prominent journalist, penned it. He got a bunch of flak for refusing to divulge many of his sources, but the book is chock full of detail and is well-written.



Whereas the Baader-Meinhof Group/R.A.F. 1st generation were relatively disorganized, the second and third generations seemed to epitomize sophistication. Baader, Meinhof and Ensslin played weekend warriors and fucked around at P.F.L.P./Black September camps in Jordan and got half-assed training, but the second and third generations were trained by the East German MfS and knew their shit, or so the official line goes. At one time, they had more than 10,000 sympathizers who were willing to aid and abet them before, during and after they perpetrated attacks, which rivaled those of the I.R.A., if not in frequency.

In fact, quite a few of the third generation are still on the loose, even though the R.A.F. was "officially" put out to pasture in '98.
Wherever there is terrorism/insurgencies, organised crime, fishy business - the spooks are hanging around to be sure. Can it ever be said enough to the public? The whole thing is rotten to the core. Maybe I'm exaggerating a bit. Will we ever know the half of it? I'm going off topic from films but yeah, very murky business indeed.
 

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#38
Yes, I'd really regard them more as Anarchists than Communists. I'm actually surprised they didn't manage to piss the KGB off.
They were anarcho-communists who loved the good life and driving Porsches and BMW's at breakneck speed. The K.G.B. and the MfS actually approved of what they were up to. Any potential threat to the stability of the West German state and the cohesion of N.A.T.O. was smiled upon. Look at how many bombing attacks they successfully perpetrated at American and British bases in West Germany.
 

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#39
I had a German film class way back when and there was a disproportionate amount of Fassbinder films we were made to watch. Maybe that's why I'm somewhat averse. I'm a fan of some Herzog films, especially when he collaborated with Klaus Kinski. I also like Josef Vilsmaier, the director of Stalingrad.

Yes, Herzog was really good too - but I only liked the ones with Kinski in them. There was a marriage made in hell lol. I've seen Stalingrad but I wouldn't put it in the same league.
 

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#40
Wherever there is terrorism/insurgencies, organised crime, fishy business - the spooks are hanging around to be sure. Can it ever be said enough to the public? The whole thing is rotten to the core. Maybe I'm exaggerating a bit. Will we ever know the half of it? I'm going off topic from films but yeah, very murky business indeed.
No, you're actually spot on, FS. I recently watched a documentary which implicated the German B.K.A. and the C.I.A. in the assassination of Alfred Herrhausen, whose armored Mercedes was blown to kingdom come by the R.A.F. He was chairman of DeutscheBank and prior to his death, there had been rumblings that he had coordinated comprehensive debt restructuring/reduction with several third-world countries. When other German, British and American banks got wind of this, they worried they'd be browbeaten to follow suit. So they pressured the governments and their spook proxies to pull the trigger, so to speak.

It makes perfect sense, sadly.